World-leading Brain Injury Physician Dr. Kabran Chapek, author of the new book "Concussion Rescue" shares his insights, experience and comprehensive guide to reclaiming your brain function after a brain injury.
But this is also an episode on brain health in general and everyone alive on this planet needs to think about the future of their brain health, from traumatic brain injury to Alzheimer's to dementia, you will have the privilege of learning from on the best physicians out there.
Dr. Chapek has been a staff physician at Amen Clinics since 2013. As a graduate of Bastyr University in the Seattle area, he is an expert in the use of functional and integrative treatments and collaborates extensively with many of the Amen Clinics physicians. He has a special interest in the assessment and treatment of Alzheimer's and dementia, traumatic brain injuries, PTSD, and anxiety disorders. Dr. Chapek is the founding president of the Psychiatric Association of Naturopathic Physicians, an affiliate group of the American Association of Naturopathic Physicians.
You can find Dr. Chapeks book "Concussion Rescue" on amazon
You can do the brain health assessment at www.brainhealthassessment.com
and follow Dr Kabran Chapek on instagram at @drkabran_chapek
You can reach out to Dr Amen at www.amenclinics.com
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Transcript of the Podcast:
Speaker 1: (00:00)
Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com
Speaker 2: (00:12)
Speaker 3: (00:13)
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Speaker 2: (01:05)
Speaker 3: (01:05)
Oh my gosh, you guys are in for the biggest, most amazing interview ever. I have Dr. Kabran Chapek to guest in a moment now. He is a staff physician at the amen clinics in America, in Seattle. And this interview is about his book, a concussion rescue, which just came out in January. Absolutely fascinating man with amazing information. If you have any problem with your brain, if you've ever had a traumatic brain injury, a concussion, if any one of your loved ones have, if you're worried about dementia, if you're worried about Alzheimer's or the future of your brain health and who shouldn't be, everybody should be interested in that. Then you must, must listen to this amazing interview. I got so much out of this and it ratified a lot of the things that I'd been doing with my mum and her journey and gave me some new ideas too. So really excited for this interview. I hope you enjoy it now over to dr Chapek.
Speaker 3: (02:09)
Well, hello everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits. It's fantastic to have you all, Back again, I really appreciate your loyalty. And this week I have a very special guest all the way from Seattle and America adopted Cameron chopping up the chocolate. Welcome to the show. It's an honor to be here with you. Lisa. It's fantastic. When one of the one of your assistants reached out to me to see if you had come on my show. And so I was just so excited when I read the outline of your new book concussion rescue, which we're going to dive into today because it was like, Oh, finally, finally someone's put this together, put this all together in a book that the light person can understand. So dr Chapek, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and where you and this amazing new book concussion risks.
Speaker 4: (03:02)
Okay, so I'm a naturopathic physician and which if, if your listeners are not sure what that is, it's looking at treating the whole person, looking at treating the cause versus symptoms. It's, that's the philosophy of naturopathic medicine and the training. In some ways it's similar, some ways different do conventional MDs are medical doctors where we have the basic sciences, but then we have the ologies oncology, gastroenterology, nutrition, exercise, all of that. So that's kind of my background in training. I work at amen clinics, which is based on dr Hayman's work. And he's a psychiatrist. Been doing this for 30 years and 30 years ago he said, instead of just talking to people, I need to look at their brains. This is what, who they are. And so he started imaging people's brains with the type of scan called SPECT, S, P, E, C, T, single photon emission computed tomography.
Speaker 4: (03:58)
It's kind of like a CT scan, but it's looking at functional aspects. So how is the brain working? And so we have this huge database of scans, 150,000 scans. When patients come in, we can compare their scans to the database, we can do research. And so part of our evaluation is looking at the brain versus just talking. And I love doing labs. I love doing a really comprehensive workup and then individualizing people's treatment plans. That's what gets me excited every day coming to work. And I work in Seattle, as you mentioned live here with my wife and three kids. And I love running and being outdoors and, and and then doing this work. And I, and I wrote the book concussion rescue because Lisa, there's a silent epidemic. And you know, I say that because there are 3 million people, at least in the U S would go to the ER every single year who have had a brain injury concussion, which is a form of mild traumatic brain injury. And they, there's not a lot of solutions and options for them. And so in, in my 12 years working in mental health, I'd say that brain injury is a major cause of mental illness. Yeah, no one's talking about it. It's minimized. And this sort of, we think that there's nothing you can do.
Speaker 3: (05:29)
Absolutely. So Assad an epidemic. So what I find interesting is that if you talk to a lot of people, and you asked me now, have you had a brain injury? They come, you know I get to talk to a lot of people because of my background with the story with mum. And a lot of people will go, no, no, no, I haven't, I haven't had a brain injury. And then you go, are you sure you haven't hit a brain? Most of us have had something along the way and it could be a long back, even in their childhood when we, you know, got knocked out on the jungle gyms or we, you know, took the hits he had in some, some way shape or form and most people have had some sort of brain injury that has left a lasting effect and people aren't aware of the solid generalists.
Speaker 4: (06:16)
No, it's, it's a myth that you know, you have to lose consciousness to have had a brain injury or that you have to have gone to the ER to have a brain injury or because I had my helmet on, I couldn't have had a brain injury. Helmet just protects the skull, you know even whiplash not hitting your head can cause a brain injury. And so a brain injury or concussion is defined as like a, a hit to the head or an acceleration. Deceleration meaning like a really fast jolt to the head, like with flash is enough to shake the brain inside the skull and cause injury. If you have any change in mental status, like feeling seen stars, that's enough to damage the brain. The brain is soft like butter and the skull is hard, like a rock with many bony ridges and it's easy for the brain to be damaged because of that.
Speaker 4: (07:17)
It's like we're not designed to hit our heads at all. Yeah, we do. And it's cumulative. So we try and ask people who come to the clinics at least 10 times, like you said, it's perfect. It's like, are you sure you ever fallen out of a tree? You ever dove into a shallow pool? ahm Have you ever had a car accident? Have ever played context sports? You had a patient, we can call him Jeremy who when he was 21, he came to see me and he had been suicidally depressed since he was 14. Wow. And he was a scrawny kid. He was a jazz drummer. Really neat kid. But he was smoking pot every day too. Feel better. He had a girlfriend who was very, very poor relationships. She was mean to him. He needed to and the relationship just couldn't do it, didn't feel strong.
Speaker 4: (08:08)
And when he came to see us, we scanned his brain and it was clear he had had an injury. Yeah. On his history, his intake, there was no evidence of brain injury. He had never said that he had had a brain injury. And so I asked him, have you ever fallen out of a tree? Have you ever dove into a shallow pool, fallen off a horse, off a bike? No, no, no. I said, have you ever play contact sports? And his mother who was with him said, Oh yeah, you did start playing football when you were age 13 ish. And he was matched against the coach's son who is six feet tall. And he was like this funny little kid. He just kept getting hit really hard and had headaches. And he and that's when his depression and suicidal started. He was also diagnosed with add and he had tried every class of medication and tried to all kinds of therapy, hypnosis, EMDR, CBT, all these really great therapies and been referred by a great therapist that I knew And so when we put them on a program to heal his brain after a couple of months, his symptoms of depression lifted.
Speaker 3: (09:17)
Speaker 4: (09:18)
And two, two years later, now fast forward, he's, this spring he's going to be graduating from the Berkeley school of music for jazz, drumming, stop smoking pot. So he's doing it. So some people have concussions and brain injuries. It's clear they're not healing. Then there's people who have some other issue in the, if you think back it may be actually due to a brain injury you didn't realize.
Speaker 3: (09:40)
Yeah, it is. You know I just had a question that popped up in my head when you're telling that story is even things like having low blood pressure or adrenal fatigue, you know, where you stand up too quickly and you in the, you get stars in your eyes for a few seconds or you know, is, is even vet doing any damage to our heads, to our brains.
Speaker 4: (10:04)
It can do a little bit. You mean like that, that low blood pressure thing? Cause you can,
Speaker 3: (10:08)
No, you've seen it where you have a bit of a dream of a taste. It doesn't come up when you stand up. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker 4: (10:17)
Z that transient decrease in blood flow to the brain can be damaging. I mean you'll even pass out eventually we'll do because it's so, it's such a shock to the brain. But it's transient. So hopefully, you know, you put your head down, you S you get blood flow again, it's short enough that it's not going to do anything permanent. But repeat low blood pressure is a problem. You know, the brain needs blood flow.
Speaker 3: (10:47)
Well, I'm asking selfishly. Yeah, yeah. Very low blood pressure and have that problem. Often when I stand up, especially in the evenings and we have been a bit stressed out and tired, I noticed that I get up and I'm like, well you know, I wondered if that, you know, that temporary lack of blood flow could be damaging as well.
Speaker 4: (11:09)
Yeah. I don't think it's good, but I don't think it's causing permanent damage. As long as you address it, put your head down, sit down, relax, lay down.
Speaker 3: (11:18)
Yeah. Now dr Kabran, I wanted to actually dive into the book a little bit and actually couple of the things now with the modernist is nine. My story with my mum. Well hopefully they do. Most of them would know and I've got a book coming out too. Next months are a meatless, you know, what's really exciting when I looked through your book, a lot of the things that you've written in this book I've done to my beloved and being in New Zealand and I didn't have access to things like spics games in, in, in a lot of the fancy stuff. But I'd do what I could. One of the biggest pieces of the puzzle for me was hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And I've had a couple of experts on the show, Dr. Scott Cher was one of those on hyperbaric and how powerful this can be for people with brain injuries. So let's start with hyperbaric. What is,
Speaker 4: (12:20)
If I had one magic bullet, I can only do one thing to heal someone's brain. It would be hyperbaric. Okay,
Speaker 3: (12:26)
Wow. Yup. Totally agree. Yeah.
Speaker 4: (12:30)
It's a, and your listeners probably know, but it's hyperbaric oxygen is a chamber well under pressure and it pushes oxygen to the deeper structures that haven't been able to heal. And just like a diver has the bins, they go up too fast. They go in this chamber at higher pressures. This is low pressure, low pressure over time. So like 40 hours, 80 hours, 120 hours. And I actually was able to participate in a quick study a pilot study with Zachary light stead and he's, he was a high school athlete who had second impact syndrome. So he was put in, was about 14 or so. He was playing football. Got hit, went out, went back in and said, I'm fine. Coach put me back in, got hit again. Massive brain bleed afterwards in a coma for months, unable to walk and talk. And he had to relearn that. And so his parents were huge advocates of that. And that's why we have the Zachary lifestyle law or some version of it in every state in the U S where if someone, if an athlete is suspected of having a concussion, they have to be taken out and assessed by a medical professional before they can be put back in. Again, not every state has a seat belt law yet, surprisingly.
Speaker 4: (13:48)
So I was able to do a high prepare costs and study with this motivated kid who is recovered a lot but not fully. And we did 40 sessions of hyperbaric before and after. And of course, it's not a 180 degree with just that, but it improved his, you could see improvements in blood flow in his frontal lobe and it's parietal lobe, even five years after this massive, massive
Speaker 3: (14:13)
Wow, that's important 0.5 years after because a lot of people ask me, well, do I have to have had it in the past few months? And then I say, no, no. Who know, you can, it came to even
Speaker 4: (14:24)
Not too late. And there's another evidence of that. We did a study with 30 retired NFL football players. So now fast forward, these guys are in their fifties and sixties, and it's been like 10 20 years since they played football, but terrible looking brains. I mean, really severe damage. And they're starting to have depression. They're starting to have memory problems. They're headed towards dementia. And what we did for them was we gave them supplements, we gave them a healthier diet treated HYP treated sleep apnea if needed. And then hyperbaric oxygen for some of them as well. And after six months we were able to rescan their brains, significant improvement. Their quality of life was better, less depression, less anxiety, less depression or less anger. That's anger and better processing speed. So it's not, it's not too late.
Speaker 3: (15:20)
Awesome. This is really exciting. I've got a brother who was a professional rugby player and he had a number of brain injuries and I've been trying to get him in the hyperbaric cause I have a chamber podcast because he wants me to know, you know what, what really frustrates me is this is a very simple, so you know, there, there, there's a, the medical grade hyperbaric facilities, which you have a lot of in America and then there are mild hyperbaric chamber and you know, and you feel that it's very hard to get access to the medical grade ones. We hit them in Oakland ring, cross street hospital, but they won't, they do not believe they are off benefit for brain injury, which is just absolute training. Same here.
Speaker 3: (16:14)
So studies. And there was one clinic here in the South on end of New Zealand, adopted Tim UA, who has had a a proper chamber, you know, a medical brake chamber and he's just shut his doors after 15 years because he's sick of all of the regulations and the problems associated with secondhand. And this is the most powerful. Like if I had not had this from mom, I do not think I would have got him back 250 sessions with him and I ended up opening a mild hyperbaric clinic here. So you get to, you know, get local people access to it. And I'm a really big advocate for it. I've, I've since sold the clinic, but it's now available for other people. It's awesome, but it's not, it's using mod hyperbaric. So which, which are Brian and Brie, you know, at 1.5 atmospheres is, is, you know according to Dr. Hart who you probably know sees his ideal, obviously for, for other injuries, a little bit high pressure would be, would be better. But it's so, it's so important to share this message that this is a very powerful X is to it. Then you're like, when you're meeting up just the brain injury. Is it that his brother?
Speaker 4: (17:39)
No, no, it's especially for strokes. I'm so glad you did that and I'm kind of curious when she noticed, started noticing improvement along that 250 sessions, if it was early and it continued to prove or later on
Speaker 3: (17:52)
We had the first 33 sessions at a commercial dive company. Con allowed me to use the facility. Also I had to sign legal waivers and so on. I, I as soon as I got around to the hospital that day, I got her out of the hospital and she was like, you know, 24, seven key issue was completely bombed. Fill down to the factory, put her on a forklift in the middle of the spectrum and stuff or in the chamber. Much thought I was nuts. Right? There's nobody you can with walls. We did three treatments at that place. And in the month following the, the chamber thing got taken off overseas at a contract and I lost the access to it. And so for a month I had no chamber while I was ordering one from the S from China. And in that month is where I saw a huge gains, is her body caught up and she said yes, you started to have more speech wanting to move her and trying to communicate. And it wasn't like up and up and walking or, or anything like that. But she was starting to have a little bit of intention to what she wanted and was trying to communicate and so on. Let's see that this awesome. And then she came back. They, I had more to work with other things and unfortunately I didn't have a spec scans. I wish, I wish I could have Headspace scans all the way through this too to prove, you know, this was what, what was happening. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: (19:39)
The hyperbarics, you know, mostly we have the same problem in the U S as far as access. So there are a lot of clinics with the mild hyperbaric and I think it works great and I recommend people we can, they can rent chambers for a couple of months and try and get in those 40 to 80 hours in the chamber. And I see it work all the time. I, I would, I tend to layer it in as kind of a clinical Pearl is like if you have the finances and resources and it have access to it, there's no reason not to do it anywhere along the process. But because it is time intensive and costly at least make sure you have the other elements in first. Nutrition, supplements, physical alignment, sleep, start to rehabilitate with brain exercises and, and add in hyperbaric if there's any plateauing along the way. And maybe after a couple of months after starting that nutrients. That's what I reckon.
Speaker 3: (20:38)
Yeah. Let's go into this, the methodology here a little bit and dig deeper into we don't always do my research. I tried to get her on, you know, the good fats, MCT oil on special oils, that sort of thing. At the beginning, she could have the eight, 10, she couldn't sugar. So most of her nutrition was green smoothies, whatever I could get down here. And so your nutrition wise, what are some of the supplements that we can, because whatever you do before you go into hyperbaric will be intensified. Run it like of you know, things like vitamin C infusions or anything like that. Is that a good, is that a, for example, a good thing to be doing? And you know,
Speaker 4: (21:29)
Prior to hyperbaric and MCT, prior to hyperbaric and essentially a ketogenic diet with hyperbaric is I think enhances the whole a, they're synergistic. They both have antioxidant and antiinflammatory effects and they both increase healing of the mitochondria turning on genes. So the whole reason I think that ketogenic diet is worth looking at, it's not right for everyone and you just want to check with your doctor before starting it. But it's, it's not just for weight loss. It's kind of a fad right now. And us, is it in New Zealand across the world? Pretty much. And it's a, it's a low fat or it's a low carbohydrate diet, less than 30 grams of carbs a day, which isn't much until that forces the body to burn fats for fuel. Your brain is very hungry using 20 to 30% of calories in your diet, which is like a quarter of your plate.
Speaker 4: (22:27)
Think about it, 2% of your body weight brain using 20 to 30% of calories in your diet, so hungry, but yet when there's injury or there's some neurological problem, typically there's a metabolic deficit. The brain is not able to use as much fuel. As mitochondria are damaged, the brain is damaged and so the ketone bodies which are produced from Makita, genic diet don't take as many steps to get into the brain to be used as fuel. Whereas some of the times the glucose transporters are damaged. I can dementia and brain injury. There's a lot of correlates between the two. There's difficulty in utilizing and accessing glucose for this hungry Oregon. You know, right after brain injury, there's this metabolic deficit, this drop in glucose metabolism after about 10 to 30 minutes, which continues to stay low for weeks. And so this hungry organ, nowK doesn't have enough glucose. That's part of the problem. It's
Speaker 3: (23:24)
The bites, the whole problem. I mean that is part of what causes to meet. Sure. Isn't it? When you if we don't have into like insulin resistance cause you know, by bad diet for many years leading to or contributing to Alzheimer's and dementia did this as a, as a similar effect happening with a brain. But that a bit quicker. Yeah, exactly. So we can get the glucose in. So it's really, really crucial. If you are not on a keto diet and you just add an exogenous ketones, is that enough? Is that going to benefit?
Speaker 4: (24:04)
That's a great question. I think it's worth trying. The research doesn't, it's unclear in my mind because they've tried giving. So there's a study because they had patients in comas and they gave them, because they know about this metabolic deficit they gave them IVA glucose thinking, Oh, let's just give them glucose. And what happened was it suppressed their little bit of ketone production. They had like 16% ketones, which were fueling the brain a little bit. And that totally squashed that. And so a little bit, so it's not the answer we need to shift towards burning fats for fuel, burning ketones for fuel. So adding exogenous ketones, there's various studies where they've I think added lactate and different sort of fuel sources and so far haven't been that successful. I think was probably the best. I mean, if I had a brain injury myself for my loved ones, my family members, I'm giving them exhaustion, ketones right away, you know, keto OOS or some sort of product. And, and just in the hopes that they're getting some more fuel for their brain with all of the nutrients that they should be receiving. But it's, if you're on a ketogenic diet, MCTs and anxieties, ketones absolutely enhance the process. If you're eating a crap diet, lots of sugar processed foods, I don't think it's going to help much
Speaker 3: (25:33)
Standard hospital fear and you know, things like that. We hit those door and I'm like, you know, I didn't find that out unfortunately during the initial, but what I did do is at least I brought in my own smoothies and made my own options while she was awesome. They allowed you to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well I didn't always ask permission. Don't you have to do the H DHA and you know, and official oils and things like that. I'm awesome as well. And I I wish I'd known more earlier. Some of these things, you know, I did later on as I, as I, as I got more and more research. But I think so if you can't get the patient to, to do a ketogenic diet at least try with the exhausted, those would be the minimum.
Speaker 4: (26:27)
Right. And do a lower carb diet. No sugar, just, you know, it can be in a stepwise process. First cut out all extra sugar, no cookies, cakes, candy, sweets, especially right after an injury or at any point. Then second step would be protein at each meal, meat, eggs, grass fed, beef, chicken, whatever. Then adding more vegetables and then more healthy fats, avocados, coconut oil. And so even doing that, like is there studies showing that if someone, excuse me, these are actually animals who are on a high sugar diet compared to those who are on a normal rat chow diet and then given a brain injury, those on a high sugar diet, those rats had a lot more concussive symptoms and took longer to recover.
Speaker 3: (27:16)
And this is, I think, you know, I'm translating a little bit into dementia and Alzheimer's. So a huge epidemic. And the thing that we can see this coming 10 years down the track, you know, this is also a very important point for, and you know, I have the broken brain series by dr Hyman and a lot of the experts in that area the mature in Alzheimer's is known as the top three diabetes in understanding the influence of sugar and insulin resistance and not giving enough glucose as we mentioned before. It's something that people can do to protect the brain health. Now, you know, years out from actually developing the disease, which is really, you know, late in the pace people especially, you know, trying to keep your brain function going. If you're noticing memory changes and this sort of thing, at least cut the sugar out. Even a tie we can obviously it didn't so much, you know, and this is the insidious problem and, and a lot of with them, older people know they've eaten meat and three veggies and the white breathe in the ligament. It's not sugar. You know,
Speaker 4: (28:39)
I had a patient who I think she was about 75 when she came in. Her son brought her in and she had moved to the area from I think Indiana or Chicago, somewhere in the Midwest. And she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's and was prescribed Aricept medications or get your things in order and see you later. I was kind of, it, it's very sad that current approach to dementia and understanding me, the doctors may not have a lot of options that they've got their meds, but we do have more options actually. And so she came in, we assessed her. Yep. You've got mild cognitive impairment, may be early stages of Alzheimer's. She was living in a retirement home and just near a little downtown. Couldn't remember how to get down a few blocks to the downtown to do her shopping. And she had to draw maps and she couldn't remember her list even if she was just like three things, had to write lists and cause I have a lot of difficulties. So when she came in, we put her on this program, great programs, supplements, nutrition, exercise and let's see back in a month. So Oh and cut out your sugar because she, she wasn't overweight, so she thought, ah, I'm, I can, I deserve to have my retirement home, my treats. You know, she had a frappuccino at breakfast. She's having ice cream and cookies because it's free. It's just like at the retirement home.
Speaker 3: (30:08)
Speaker 4: (30:09)
Serve ice cream. I said, you got to cut off the shirt. Just cut out the sugar. Let's do that first. Try and eat more protein and less carbs, which is like you mentioned, take the bun off the burger just even if it's not like the best quality meat, just that's fine. Just cut out the carbs first. And so she came back a month later and she was now able to, even just a month, she's able to find her way downtown. Wow. And she could remember that at least three things on her list. She couldn't remember everything, but three things she could remember. And I said, I'm patting myself on the back. Oh my God, you, you did everything. My pro, my protocol is like perfect. And she's like, I didn't take any of the supplements that you recommended. Oh boy. And I didn't do the exercise. But I did cut out the sugar.
Speaker 3: (31:01)
It just cut it just in one in one month you saw a change. Did she subsequently do the wrist?
Speaker 4: (31:10)
So then she was willing to do more and so each thing she added, like we added curcumin, we added a brain supplement. It had Gingko and Huperzine each thing she added, she got a little bit more improvement over the subsequent months. And that's what I found folks, you know, they may be a little mistrustful and so they want to try just one thing at a time. And luckily that was the thing that was really slowing her progress down.
Speaker 3: (31:36)
Oh man. It's so exciting. You know, like to see, you know, and you get people that have been on drugs and they've tried things and they have just, and these are not dangerous things to come out sugar and take a few supplements. You know, like we're not asking these mob America, but the side effect is better health overall and that is always going to benefit your brain anytime that you are. You mentioned Kirkman, which is your tumeric, which is another thing that I still hadn't come on and I'm on. What are some of the other sub supplements that could, is there a list of supplements that you give at as a standard or do you tailor them to each particular patient? Who, one, that's everyone's tailored, but there are some that I keep coming back to because they will compose. So the app, you know, I listens to them eat them now.
Speaker 4: (32:32)
Yes. Well NAC is probably available. There is a supplement. Inositol cystine. Yup. Precursor to glutathione, anti-inflammatory and just a little piece of information too. They did this double blind placebo controlled trial in 2013 where they had active service members who had a concussion like in the field. So they had an IED blast or something and then were carried or taken to the medic and they gave them NAC. Was this a double blind trial? So NAC or placebo and they were given a lot of it. And I'll tell you the dose in a second, after a week, 86% of them imp like recovered from their and concussive symptoms, whereas 42% recovered, you weren't given any. Wow. And so they were given four grams immediately days one through four. And they were given two grams twice a day. And there's five through seven. They were given 1.5 grams twice a day. So that's like an acute protocol. But NAC is important even after the fact, because many of, even though the research is mostly on acute brain injury, we know the mechanisms, many of them are exactly the same and chronic brain injury and concussion and so they apply. So NAC applies. Curcumin definitely.
Speaker 3: (33:59)
C is inositol a sustain for anybody who doesn't know what that means? Okay. And Q command, which is your, in your tumeric, what sorts of vitamins for that one?
Speaker 4: (34:11)
I would do about a thousand milligrams a day of a high quality one. And it needs to be, you can use that acutely. And also chronically, it helps to open up aquaporins. So these are water channels in the brain and you can do decrease swelling, which is especially important acutely for brain injury. Like there's this pastor who was in a car accident. I always remember. And two weeks later he thought he was fine. We went to the ER, checked out, you're fine, no brain bleed. Good. Then he went home. He was, seemed to be okay, but two weeks later he couldn't write a sermon. And I think what happened is the swelling was very gradual and slow. Not enough to be life threatening, but eventually it pushed on some of the brain regions that temporal lobes, frontal lobes, and he started having cognitive problems. So it can be this delayed.
Speaker 3: (35:04)
It's a light smoke, which is logical. When you cut yourself, you don't see the swelling straight away, you see it as it goes into the healing process.
Speaker 4: (35:14)
Exactly. Vitamin vitamin D is important. So as a fat soluble vitamin, almost more like a hormone, it turns on many different genes and helps modulate inflammation in the brain. Vitamin C I used 5,000. I use vitamin D. Vitamin C is as a buffered antioxidant water-soluble, the brain actually does well with more vitamin C, even though it's just a simple thing, everyone knows about it. It really does help decrease inflammation, that oxidative stress in the brain thousand milligrams at least a day. And they get three fatty acids. And I like using ones that are higher, a little higher EPA to DHA, which most are EPA for inflammation D to help rebuild the neuron and the cell membrane. And we try to use three grams a day of EPA DHA total. And that's what we use in that football player studying MCT oil of course you mentioned and other things,
Speaker 3: (36:27)
Especially oil, it's, it's important that you look for a very good quality one. W what do you type on the opposite side of problem, you know, with, with the some of the lower price fish oils [inaudible] a lot of oxidation going on. That is a problem.
Speaker 4: (36:45)
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And quality is really key, especially for fish oil, like vitamin D, vitamin a, some of these nutrients, there's only a few manufacturers. Like in the, in the U S there's only three places that actually make vitamin E and every other supplement company just packages it up and charges different amounts. Vitamin E and they get three is not like that. It's really individualized per company and you need to check quality and there can be heavy metals in the fish. It can be oxidized like you said, if it's not processed properly. So that's when I wouldn't go for the cheap stuff.
Speaker 3: (37:23)
Okay. Very, very, very good. I'm talking on healing middle toxicity. Sorry, going a little bit off of track and we'll come back. I've done here tissue mineral analysis with mum. She's got like a moot Cori. What would be your humane mandation for getting rid of, you know, chelating these high pinning middles out of, out, out of your body. Is there anything new we want to supplement level for that type of thing?
Speaker 4: (37:55)
Well, yes. So one I'll just, there's a lot there. First making sure your organs of elimination are working, you know, which are organs of elimination are sweating. So the skin breathing out, toxins pooping out toxins. Having good bowel movements and not being constipated, and then urinating them out, st hydrated and peeing them out. So once all of those are open, then you can start sort of facilitating removal of metals or all toxins. And the fact that she has mercury, she probably has other things too. So solvents, mold should be always assessed for. And so I do love saunas and sweating because dr Jenny is from Canada did a really interesting study where he looked at, so what is Sana do? Like, what is it actually eliminating? And they measured in the sweat of people doing sauna. It eliminates mold metals and just chemicals, solvents.
Speaker 4: (39:00)
So it does all three. Wow. So that's why I love Sana because it's gonna remove all of them. And it's also been shown study out of Finland. If you're doing sauna more frequently, lower chances of dementia, in fact, that was it 2000 Finnish men or 20,000? There was a lot of them in any case. And after they followed them over many years and they found that the more saunas that they did, like five to seven days a week, they had 30% less risk of Alzheimer's versus those that just did it one day a week. So it's multiple reasons to do saunas and sweating and actually in the same study through exercise, sweat, also cleansing and detoxifying. So the fact that you're a runner and running all that gets you have been is cleansing.
Speaker 3: (39:49)
Yeah. As you know, is a, is a, is a huge piece of this puzzle for brain injury. As well as the most detoxifying and, and I totally eh, and someone who's sweeped every single day pretty much of their life. And I, I even even compete just to my, my siblings I can see lots of things happening in the body, so that isn't happening in mind yet. And I believe a lot of it is the, the daily sweeping, the daily mudflow, the oxygenation of the tissues. Hugely important for and also for, you know, cognitive stuff as well. Like mum, I have her doing at least two hours of aerobic activity. Very low level. We're talking on a stationary bicycle and morphing. That's all she can manage. Obviously it's CBAs but you know, two hours a day and awesome. Yeah. You know, sometimes she doesn't want to crack the whip differently. The drug Sajan that oxygen, that movement then is very, very, very important. I believe in airing her, her brain
Speaker 4: (41:10)
exercise is so important. Increasing blood flow, it increases especially intense aerobic exercise increases BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is like miracle growth for the neurons and the more intense the more you produce. And there's supplements that increase BDNF a little bit, medications a little bit, but exercise trumps them all
Speaker 3: (41:33)
Speaker 4: (41:34)
Absolutely. Much more. What about new for fact or is it also influenced by nerve growth factor? Yeah. Yes. Also same influenced by exercise interval training will increase nerve growth factor. And like you said, increasing blood flow in general is, is needed and this is a real big exercise versus anaerobic or strength training. And then, you know, just going to say about this cleansing or effective exercise and endurance athlete, like you probably does sweat, you know, for 45 minutes or so, but folks like your average person like myself, I may go for it. 15 minute run, I'm not going to sweat as much as I would in a sauna. So just keep that in mind. So people listening just cause you're doing a little bit of sweating, it's probably not enough. If you really have a problem with toxicity, you'd want to actually do some sauna and sweat for really good sweat for 20 to 40 minutes several times a week.
Speaker 3: (42:39)
Yeah. And that's something, a problem I have with mum. Like I couldn't put her in a sauna. I don't know why, but she has temperature regulation problems that are brain steam, hypothalamus, brainstem bleed damaged thermostat. Yeah. Well she seems to have no tolerance to heat. She's good as soon as the hate. Like we're in the middle of summer here and it's a struggle that your cognitive abilities do decline and she over hates. Is there anything you can do for them?
Speaker 4: (43:16)
I'm not sure. How does she do with cold?
Speaker 3: (43:19)
She's much better with cold cuts, very well with cold. But Hey, you know, like her ability to walk inside of this is, is impaired.
Speaker 4: (43:31)
Yeah. I would say may just may not be able to do this sweating. But it's interesting that she does well with cold and maybe even pushing that further and considering cold therapy
Speaker 3: (43:42)
you cry, cry. Yup. You know, ice man training love that is really interesting. So, and I think these extremes and change is, is a key factor here too. It's, yeah. And, and because if you think about it, we, we came from, you know, an F caveman days. We were exposed to the elements. We were exposed to coal, we weren't comfortable all day in a company. And I think having exposure to what was natural is often a benefit and being convenient. Stress, yup.
Speaker 4: (44:23)
Helps us to be, become more resilient and stronger. I totally couldn't agree more. Exercise cold and hot. I'm challenging the brain brain training. You know, all of these are really important.
Speaker 3: (44:37)
Absolutely. So, going back to the supplement regime, is there anything that we, because we sort of waned on agent, was there anything else that you'd say, Hey, you've got a brain injury.
Speaker 4: (44:51)
So alpha GPC really important for acetylcholine. And after stroke 1200 milligrams got to do that. So I don't know if she's taking off of GPC, but that's worth a try.
Speaker 3: (45:04)
Heavier on acetylcholine is that different? Alpha GPC phosphatidylcholine. Now as Seadrill calling,
Speaker 4: (45:13)
I see the coin. So the casino coin is that actual neurotransmitter that you're trying to make. So I see the little carnitine.
Speaker 3: (45:21)
Yes, I have in the past header on there. Is it good?
Speaker 4: (45:25)
Yeah, that is also good. Helps the mitochondria. Yeah. Alpha GPC will help you her make more acetylcholine and also help the neuron. Phosphatidyl searing is another really good one for memory. There's not as much research on that for brain injury, but I, I still think it's really helpful for memory and cognition because 10% of your brain is made out of this fossa title steering. It's in the cell membranes and
Speaker 3: (45:57)
Speaker 4: (45:58)
Counter as a supplement. It's very, I'd give it to kids. I mean it's so safe this stuff, but it really is helpful. Alpha GPC potentially. So Gingko 120 milligrams to 240 of Gingko biloba extract. Really good for blood flow. Who present a Chinese club. Moss is a natural acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, so it's sort of increases your body's own CDOT. Coleen I wouldn't give that for acute brain injury, but chronic brain injury, dementia, any other,
Speaker 3: (46:32)
How do you spell that one? Lou Lou cuisine
Speaker 4: (46:35)
Prison. H. U. P. E. R. Z. I. N. E. a. It's M Chinese club Moss. It's from Chinese club Moss. And it's, it's a [inaudible]
Speaker 3: (46:47)
But you have to go out and actually buy concussion rescued because this is all that's sort of level of information in one single seating sitting is, is there's a lot, I mean I spent months and months researching to come up with the bits and pieces that I came up with. And you've written a book that actually gives people a first aid kit for Brian and a protocol to follow and in this is just so exciting. You know I'd love to, if you were down the road, I'd love to go on a speaking tour with you and give like that Rachel side of it and then the side of it, wouldn't it be just
Speaker 4: (47:31)
Let's do it. I'll come down to New Zealand. I've been wanting to need an excuse so,
Speaker 3: (47:36)
Well I use that word a lot. They're all come to America and because, because we, we talking millions of people being affected by brain injury every year in, in most people are not given anything except you know, the, well not even the diet recommendations like it's, it's frustrating said and there are just so many people suffering in silence and, and it's an insidious thing because with Brian injuries as with dementia, you don't see on the outside the stuff going on. So a lot of the people that come through our hyperbaric clinic would be so in tears that people don't, when I understood the pain that I was going through because people could not see an injury, that's a young man and he looks healthy and he can't stay in the light and he can't stand the noise. And he counts, he's fatigued all the time and people are just thinking, you're being a woman, you're not.
Speaker 4: (48:40)
And he starts to wonder, what's wrong with me? Maybe I am a wimp. Maybe I'm, I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 3: (48:47)
It's more sad. And then things like depression and personality changes where we think someone's just become a horrible person. Dealing with really cognitive problems. So having an, having understanding for people who have Dimitrio who have personality changes, we have like going on that it may be not be fault, you know?
Speaker 4: (49:15)
Yeah. I have to say that's one benefit of having the ability to do imaging or at least some kind of cognitive tool or test. The imaging is just so powerful because when you show someone their brain and it showed their family members their brain, that's when the tears come because it's like, Oh my God, it's not only diagnostic, but it's therapeutic. They understand. It's just, it is, there is, there is a, there's an injury,
Speaker 3: (49:41)
Yes. And injury and I can see it and I feel, Oh my gosh, it's not all my fault and I'm not being a neurotic or, or you know, being old. There's nothing wrong with you. You know, I'm with them and they know that there's something wrong but nobody's believing them. And that is very, very painful. And I wish we hit spec scans. He, we don't have access to them. And I wish that had been through the journey to be able to
Speaker 4: (50:12)
I'm just thinking what else is available? You know, there's cognitive testing that can be done just to document difficulty in memory and focus and things.
Speaker 3: (50:22)
Can you just ask a, you know, a clinician or do you,
Speaker 4: (50:25)
Yeah. You can do on our website, brain health assessment.com. I can't remember if there's a fee or it's not, it doesn't cost very much to do. And you can measure where you're at as far as, you know, focus memory in different aspects. In the clinic we use something called web neuro and that's a web-based cognitive tests that people do is computerize and manage the tension memory. Also emotion. And this brain health assessment is the exact same test. So it's, it's, it's high quality. And there's pencil, paper tests and there's also labs that can be done to measure if there's damage to the pituitary gland. It's a whole other issue cause 25 to 50% of people with a history of brain injury have damage to the pituitary glands, your master hormone gland. Oh, and maybe a little more accessible.
Speaker 3: (51:19)
Let's dive into this. So hormone just came from. So all of the labs that you could do this with, you have, and how do you doctor into doing them?
Speaker 4: (51:30)
That's half the battle, isn't it? I would, I would just say, you know, bring in the research, there's plenty of studies showing that, you know this is very, some studies say 25, some say 50%, some say even more. If there's, you know, I've had a brain injury, this is what happens. And you can document that by measuring pituitary function and you know, it's, you can actually measure in a bloodwork pituitary hormones like for testosterone, the precursor or the stimulus is LH. And FSH. This is on the book too. It's in all the labs and stuff. For thyroid instead of having what normally is a high TSH and a low T three T four is actually low TSH and low T three T four, which means that the pituitary is not sending the signal to the thyroid gland.
Speaker 3: (52:23)
Oh wow. Is that, so is that causing the in the like more reverse T three and I'm not talking on the receptor or is it, Oh, you're very sophisticated knowledge. That's great. I'm impressed. I'm work out forward because this is part of month's problem and reverse T three. Yes. I've, I've been arguing with a doctor and, and again, I want a full panel and I cannot get a full panel three free T for me that's too bad. Do antibodies and TSH and T four and that's all I can get out of the law at the moment. So,
Speaker 4: (53:01)
Right. So if, if you do, if you just do a TSH, which is the standard for screening, that's not going to tell us really what's going on because you know, if it's low TSH they may say, Oh, you're fine. It's not too, you know, it's the kind of kiss is reverse where if it's low, you're hyperthyroid. If it's high, you're hyperthyroid typically. But if you're low plus your T three and T four low, it's pituitary issue actually. So that's important to know. Any case looking at act H and cortisol is for adrenal. And then of course testosterone for men, estrogen, pedestrian for women and LH, FSH. Those would probably be the main ones. And just say, Hey doctor, please, please test these labs. You may have to cut a pocket or whatever. I don't know if you have labs where you can just,
Speaker 3: (53:56)
We, yeah, we do have bicycle labs, but if you want anything, you know, it's things like cortisol I do regularly and that you have to pay for. So someone like, like mom was obviously got adrenal issues. So like things like estrogen, LH, GC, if it, if it's age in an older female, that would be, it's going to be high. You know, it's, it's different than, than I would I read. That's a very deep clinical question.
Speaker 4: (54:29)
I guess if it's low, then, then there's pituitary issues. It should be high in menopause after you're going to have high altitude. What happens is the S that the ovaries stop producing estrogen, but the brain thinks it's still, they still should be. So the brain sends a lot of LH and FSH down to the ovaries. And so it, that's how you know you're in menopause if you have high LH and FSH. So then if you measured those after menopause and it's really low, that would be very unusual. It would be, Oh, the pituitary is not working.
Speaker 3: (55:07)
And, and if it's the pituitary, it's not working. Is there anything you can do about that?
Speaker 4: (55:13)
Oh, great question. All of these things should help peel the pituitary. I'm actually balancing the hormones. So adding an estrogen, progesterone, testosterone looking at growth hormone. That's the other one I forgot to mention. If growth hormone is low, that's very common in pituitary damage. And can really, if you can increase growth hormone that helps with healing of the whole brain in the body. Best done through exercise again. And so, and then taking the supplements, putting the brain in a healing environment will help the pituitary to also heal. So that's the supplements diet, exercise, hyperbaric. So the hyperbaric is very helpful for pituitary damage as well.
Speaker 3: (56:01)
It's really good growth hormone. I'm actually taking a supplement. Is it, is there any danger with that in regards to cancer?
Speaker 4: (56:09)
I always talk with people about that. Like if you had a tumor and you have lots of growth hormone, you might potentially growth of the tumor. So that's like balancing the two. It's like, do we want lots of growth factors or do we want to keep, like there's this whole thing about low calorie diet and low IGF one, which is a marker for growth hormone. There's this field or you know, so it's really a balance of the two. It's not one or the other. I don't actually recommend people do growth hormone because you can become dependent on it and it's expensive. It's like over a thousand dollars a month, something like that. But you can again, exercise, there's supplements or nothing are Janine this product called tri amino. There's various companies that make it and there's three amino acids that are helpful in making growth hormone, taking it bedtime.
Speaker 3: (57:04)
Yup. [inaudible] Voicing that type of thing or,
Speaker 4: (57:07)
Yeah. I think it's arginine ornithine and there's one other, but it's three amino acids in particular without other amino acids. You just want those three and on an empty stomach. And if you're really going for it and talk about this in the book, but prior to exercise or empty stomach at night, cause you grow, produce most of your growth hormone at night when you're in deep sleep. That's why deep sleep is so, it's one of the reasons why it's so important.
Speaker 3: (57:35)
Wow. This is how people are listening. So I've just done a couple of podcasts, episodes on sleep and the importance of sleep and when you won't have enough sleep and growth hormone is one of those things. And your hormone regulation in general. I was going to go, Oh, sleep apnea. You mentioned the briefly or sleep disruption. Sleep apnea wasn't one of the big key mumps I worked at when I was in hospital when she, she's still in hospital. She'd been on oxygen Wellington and when they transplant her to new Plymouth, she was taking off the supplemental oxygen and I noticed a decline in who w what was already terrible but was even worse. And I tried to get him to put this up and legal bank box option back on and they wouldn't. And Avi headed with altitudes ricing and altitude.
Speaker 3: (58:35)
And I'd been in a hot code hypoxic tent at night with the oxygen. And I had like giving myself a hypoxic brain concussion a few years ago. Growing up too high too fast because I was impatient. I slept in a half thousand meters every night, all night, knocked off. A lot of brain cells have hypoxic rag pressure. And during that time when I did this, I had a whole lot of infections because the bacteria in the body oxygen deficit. And so I was recognizing some of these when she was in the hospital, still my brain went tick, tick, tick apnea, sleep apnea. Cause she was sleeping of course, 20, 21 hours a day. And the doc said, no, she don't, you don't need the sleep apnea test. And I went and got an outside consultant for him and I got in big trouble. I didn't really care resolving. He'd done a taste and it came, make some via sleep apnea. And, and from my research and the thesis there are a lot of people who are suffering from sleep apnea who are not aware that are suffering sleep apnea. Do you think this is a massive contributor to brain injury?
Speaker 4: (59:49)
Oh, absolutely. Brain problems in general. I think luckily people are recognizing it more and screening more and needs to be done. If your sleep, if you're sleeping a lot like your mom was, or not feeling rested or waking up at night a lot. In fact, my father who has had chronic sleep problems, I've tried to give him every supplement under the sun, can't seem to get his sleep under control. He just did a sleep study. It turns out he has mild sleep apnea and that was causing him to wake up frequently throughout the night.
Speaker 3: (01:00:20)
Wow, that's interesting, isn't it? And things like even like adrenal exhaustion, you know, your cortisol levels going up in the middle of the night, like that type of thing. I mean we w I'm very much into, you know, breathing exercises and front of the peat, the parasympathetic nervous system, blue blocking at night or what are those things that contribute to good health? And very important again, a tangent. We in our company we do epigenetic testing. And this looks like a genetics and how they're experiencing lightened. Well and one of the key things there is to understand what time of the day [inaudible] biology is very very important. So if your hormones are icing between five and six in the morning and you're getting up at 5:00 AM to do a CrossFit workout, that can be very detrimental to your health and smell. Look, dr [inaudible], I know that you've got to go shortly. I just want to wait. Can people reach out to you and I definitely want to talk to you further because this is isolating conversation. I think I've ever head in so exciting. I can't wait for the book to arrive in the post. We can people reach you. We can they get the book. And what are the next steps for people who are suffering from brain injury?
Speaker 4: (01:01:53)
Well, great. I've really enjoyed talking with you too. I can feel your passion and excitement to help others and that's where my heart's about to because your brain is like, that's everything. It's who we are. It's our personality. That's why I do this work is to help people recover and optimize their brain function. Because I want you to be able to share your gifts with the world and just be yourself and it's never too late like end with that. It's never too late to at least try and help heal your brain for brain injury. You and your mother are proof of that. I'm so excited to read your book as it comes out next month. Congratulations. You can find my book concussion rescue. It's out. Just released a January 28th on Amazon. There's an audible version for people and a listen to it. We recorded a a video series. It's available beginning of February on the book at Ayman university. It's available there. And I'm at amen clinics Northwest and Seattle. You can just Google that. Amen. Clinics, Northwest and Seattle location. There's clinics all around the country and
Speaker 3: (01:03:00)
Well I personally as well with people who have my own website. Yeah, I don't, I tried to and I'm not that tech savvy, so. Okay. You must, you must get you your age. I'm on Instagram and Facebook too. Excellent. So people can reach you. Doctor, dr Kabran Chapek, Chapek sorry. Concussion rescue. I will put, I'll get all those links from you, Dr. Cameron 16 with the audience. If I can help with any way, shape or form with getting this book out there. We've got to make this a best seller right around the world because this is, this is absolute crucial work that you're doing and I'm really, really, really sorry that I paid you all this. Thank you so much for your time today, dr Kevin. My pleasure. Great to be with you.
Speaker 3: (01:03:55)
You really enjoyed that interview with dr Chapek, make sure you go and get their book concussion rescue a must read for anyone with a brain really. And I also wanted to remind you my book relentless is coming out on the 11th of March and is available now for preorder. If you want to grab it, you're also going to get at the moment for the next couple of weeks excess to my mental toughness and mindset Academy if you buy the book and the next couple of weeks. So that's a value of $275 that course. So please go and check that out at least at lisatamati.com and hit on the shop button if you want to help with your health. With epigenetics, we have an eerie genetics testing program, which I mentioned briefly in the show. If you want to find out what that is all about, please head over to our programs page. We've got three flagship programs, we've got the mindset, you've got the epigenetics, and we've got the run training Academy, so please chicken all that out, head over to Lisatamati.com And don't forget to give them a show, a rating and review and share it with your friends. Thanks guys.
Speaker 1: (01:05:01)
That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.
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I am getting my mojo back with regards to my health and running after treatment for breast cancer, I connected with Lisa as I was looking for positive influences from people who are long distance runners and understand our mindset. Lisa’s podcasts have been a key factor in getting me out of a negative space where I allowed others limiting beliefs to stop me from following my heart and what I believe is right for me. After 18 months of being in cancer recovery mode I wanted to get out of the cancer mindset and back to achieving goals that had been put aside. Listening to Pushing The Limits has put me onto other great podcasts, and in the process I have learnt so much and am on a pathway to a much better place with my mindset and health. Thanks so much Lisa for doing what you do and always being you.