INUSpheresis: Removing Toxins, Heavy Metals and Microplastics From Blood — Full Transcript

Lisa: Hey everyone and welcome into Pushing the Limits. Fantastic to have you with me again. Now I have the lovely Tash Simons with me. So welcome to the show Tash. Really great to have you and I'm excited for our conversation today and where it's going to take us.

Tash: Thanks Lisa. I'm looking forward to talking to you.

Lisa: Yeah, like you are quite amazing. So you've had a bit of a backstory. To set the stage for the people, we're going to be talking about something called INUSpheresis, which is a really exciting therapy that you may never have heard of and you need to know all the details of this and what it's all about and how it works and why this might be important for you if you're listening to this. And Tash is going to be sharing some of her journey with this therapy. Tash and Dr Robbie Simons have a clinic in Perth that is offering INUSpheresis now, which is absolutely amazing to have it down at this end of the planet. But before we get into the details of apheresis, Tash, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and how did this come on your radar with you and Dr Robbie?

How INUSpheresis Came Into Their World

Tash: About me — I've been managing my husband Robbie's medical practice for about 16 years. And we also have an intravenous therapy room. So my husband Robbie was an integrative doctor for about 20 years and about 18 years ago he decided to change over to musculoskeletal medicine, but he's always kept abreast of integrative and functional medicine because he finds it interesting. But he was also interested in another field as well. What happened in terms of how INUSpheresis came into our world was one of Robbie's close family members became really unwell with chronic fatigue about four and a half years ago. He got them to do some treatments which were marginally helpful to them, but they still weren't able to function normally, which was really difficult for them and difficult for us to watch them struggle with basically operating normally in their life.

Tash: So weirdly — and I suppose this is communication is my big thing, I love talking to people and helping where I can — I was in contact with somebody who had a daughter who was really unwell with chronic fatigue. And she told me about four and a half years ago that she had heard of a treatment in Europe called INUSpheresis, which is a form of blood cleansing, and she thought that it might be helpful for her daughter who had chronic fatigue. And I said, "Oh, that sounds really interesting. I'm going to talk to Robbie tonight." Because something I love about my husband is he's really open-minded and if there's anything that can help someone, he will go research it and see if it's something that he would think might be helpful.

Lisa: Gold.

Tash: Yeah. It's pretty special. So I spoke to him that night and he said, "Oh, I've actually heard of it, but I don't know a lot about it. I'm going to look into it." And I thought, "Oh, exciting. Okay, let's see what he finds." And basically over the next couple of days he came back to me and talked to me about clinical studies that indicated that INUSpheresis could be helpful by removing toxins, heavy metals and inflammation out of the body for people with chronic fatigue and other chronic or neurological or inflammatory diseases.

The First Experience With INUSpheresis in Vienna

Tash: So he then went to the next step and he found a little clinic in Vienna in Austria and he emailed the doctor there. Amazingly we've become really good friends with the doctor over there and his wife because within a few days Robbie's talking to him and he had a few conversations with him over a couple of weeks. And within I think about four or five weeks he had decided that he thought it could be helpful for his family member. So within six weeks, the family member decided to take the advice and go over to Vienna and have the treatment protocol, which was two treatments in a week.

Tash: And when they were there, the doctor said they could pay for a lab report that would be sent off to Germany. And what happens when you have INUSpheresis is — and I'm not a medical person, but I've seen it, I've had it myself — basically when your blood goes through this device, it's separated from red blood cells to your plasma, and then the plasma goes through a double filtration device. So it's cleaned in terms of removing toxins, heavy metals and inflammation, and it goes into a bag which is called the eluate.

Tash: So what the family member was offered — you can send a sample of the eluate to a lab, which they decided to do, that would do an analysis. And interestingly the family member said they wanted to do the testing on both INUSpheresis treatments, which normally doesn't happen. So it was actually really interesting to see that lab report after the first treatment and the second treatment because what it did is from A to Z — so say from aluminium being your first one coming out — it would measure how much was coming out. So it's actually scientific, the report, and it would state whether it was acceptable, borderline, high or very high. And having that comparison to see after the first take and the second take was really interesting for us to see. So the family member went over there and did that and that was basically our first introduction to INUSpheresis.

Difference Between First and Second Treatment

Lisa: And was there a difference between the first and the second go round? You know, like the first time I imagine it collects a lot more out of the toxins and the problematic stuff, and then the second time maybe a little bit less because you've already cleaned up some of the mess already in there. Would that be right?

Tash: That's what we saw. Yeah. And it was a real difference to be able to see a significant number of those toxins and heavy metals were high or very high, and the reduction in those on the second take, which was really encouraging to see.

The History of Double Filtration Plasmapheresis

Lisa: Yeah, that's great. And so after this you decided hey, this is something that other people need to have and we need to bring it to Australia. So you guys are in Perth and you've had to bring this technology, do the training, do all of that sort of stuff. Can you tell us and walk us through that journey? Because that's not easy, right? To bring — I mean this treatment really goes back to the 1980s. It's been around for a long time in one form or another and it sort of developed over time.

Lisa: In 1980 the Japanese scientist Agishi and colleagues who worked at Tokyo Women's Medical University did the first paper on double filtration plasmapheresis. And instead of discarding the plasma they ran it through a second membrane which trapped the molecules including albumin. So you were able to return most of the stuff back. Now there was 10% of the albumin of the person was also taken out but that sort of replaced within about 36 hours or so. And they also got back their immunoglobulins and their electrolytes, whereas previous iterations of apheresis had pulled out everything and thrown the baby out with the bathwater — the good and the bad. So this was a bit of an iteration on it already back in the 1980s.

Lisa: And then that developed over the 80s, 90s, 2000s — was widely used in Thailand, Korea, China, everywhere but the West. The West didn't really — we in the West sort of went more for total plasma exchange and for immunosuppressive drugs. But this was working in these other countries extensively. And then in 2006 — so just before we come back to your story to give people a little bit of the history — in 2006 Dr Reinhard Straube, who is a nephrologist based in Germany, he started researching double filtration plasmapheresis and thought it could be applied to a much broader lot of conditions. So environmental toxicity, chronic inflammatory illnesses, autoimmune — if you could design the right filters. And that's the magic that he brought to this area of expertise. And he started to develop over the next 14 years, refining the filter technology into what's now become INUSpheresis. And he's treated something like 38,000 people over that time, which is just absolutely amazing.

Bringing INUSpheresis to Australia

Lisa: So giving that background about it — it's been around for 45 years, it's just been in development and changing and becoming much more advanced — how did you get it into Australia and go through that whole process? Because that's quite a nightmare I should imagine, trying to get a brand new thing into Australia. How did that go?

Tash: Yeah, interesting journey. We didn't straight away think about it because of exactly that reason.

Tash: What we did become aware of was there were a number of Australians going to Europe to have INUSpheresis, and the cost of flying to Europe, the accommodation plus the treatment — because the treatments are expensive — means it's really cost-prohibitive to a lot of people who needed the treatment. And I think after seeing that go on for a bit, that's when we started to think, wouldn't it be amazing if we could do a treatment like this in Australia.

Tash: And I think as a friend said recently, Robbie is an amazing visionary and has great ideas. His open-mindedness — from a conversation I had with somebody, he'll go research and do all of that — is basically a tribute to him because he is a visionary. And as the same friend said, "And Tash, you're a great workhorse."

Lisa: He's the visionary. You're the one that makes this stuff happen.

Tash: Yeah. So we work well together.

Lisa: Absolutely. Love it.

Tash: Yeah. To be honest, when I started working with Robbie 16 years ago, I said I'd give him one year managing the practice because there's like 10 people who work there and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to be bored out of my brain." The last job I had, two and a half thousand people that I was managing.

Lisa: Wow.

Tash: But literally 16 years on, every day is a new day and there's always something new and it makes it really rewarding. So that kind of vision and my capacity to do the background work — first of all we had to check whether the device in terms of the regulatory status, whether it had any regulatory status and whether a distributor was attached to it. And actually amazingly we found that somebody — we don't know who — in 2007 had that device registered.

Lisa: Wow. With the TGA, is it?

Tash: Yeah. So that was registered in 2007 with a distributor. Now, I don't know who it was, but they did nothing with it. So then the next step was to check whether it was still active, which is what I did, and it was still active. So that was the number one big tick. Huge.

Tash: Which makes life a lot simpler when you've got that going on. And then obviously getting insurance for Robbie and the nurses and the practice, which took time because — I'm proud to say that we're the first clinic in Australia, in fact the Southern Hemisphere, to be able to offer this treatment to people.

Tash: So there were a lot of questions. The insurance company had a lot of information. Robbie had to answer a lot of questions. They also developed medical questionnaires and consent forms and they had input to make sure that we were complying with everything. So we got that, which was the next big tick.

Tash: And after that we had to make the financial commitment to basically buying the machines — which was not exactly small. We decided at the time to buy two machines, which was a huge financial commitment, but it's been worth it because we've had a lot of families and partners come and have INUSpheresis and it means they can be treated at the same time.

Lisa: Brilliant. Brilliant.

Tash: Two machines, two rooms. So two people at a time can be treated, because the treatments aren't quick. They're significant. Patients are there anything from three to four, five hours.

Tash: So basically we made that financial commitment along with everything else that goes with it. You have to buy the filters from ICE Medical Devices in Switzerland. ICU beds, ECG machines.

Lisa: Oh my gosh, the list goes on. All of that. Well done. Amazing.

Tash: Pretty big. And then the last but very important as well — you can't just do INUSpheresis without being trained by the Swiss. So we had to get the technician to come out from Switzerland, which he did last June, to do a week of intensive training with Robbie and the nurses. Then after that training they could administer INUSpheresis, but in order to be certified you need to do 30 treatments and the doctors and the nurses need to sit online exams, which they've all done.

Tash: So we're a fully certified practice — doctors, nurses — and actually we've done 100 treatments since June last year, which I think is great to have reached that many people and provide them some help.

Clinical Research and the Filters

Lisa: Yeah, because this is the thing — this is a treatment that can really be game-changing. And for so many people that are stuck, that have got — which sort of brings us to the next thing — some of the clinical research behind INUSpheresis. In my prep for this I've been doing some deep diving into the research. And don't let me forget to talk about the filters and how that works.

Lisa: It's been used and there's a big body of clinical research. One of the strongest signals has been in the long COVID and ME/CFS area. And I know you know this area quite well. So there's been studies using that TKM58 filter and they have found this to be really hugely beneficial. I can put all the references down below for people that want to look up each of the studies. But what's been your experience? Have you had anybody that has experienced that? I know you can't talk about cases and we've got to be very careful what we say, but can you talk generally?

Tash: Yes. We have had a range of people come across to have treatments — from chronic fatigue to long COVID to people with autoimmune conditions, inflammatory diseases, neurological and cognitive diseases. Because like you say with those studies, it removes inflammation, which is basically a factor in most diseases. And also toxins like your heavy metals, your plastics, PCBs and DDT.

Tash: It's the only treatment that I'm aware of that removes those plastics. And unfortunately, we're all full of those plastics.

Lisa: Yeah, the microplastics that we're all dealing with. And this is a really good way to deal with that.

Tash: I recently had INUSpheresis and I did it — touch wood as I say — I'm blessed with good health, but I did it for longevity and for aging well. So I did it to be proactive, because we don't know what's in store for us and if we can do something proactive for our health. I felt like if I could remove those toxic materials from my body, hopefully I'll age better. And when I saw the lab report — because I paid for it to go to Switzerland — I was really shocked at what I saw coming out.

Lisa: Yeah. And quite horrifying, isn't it?

Tash: Not what we're — actually really positive that I've done it, to hopefully help me age better.

Lisa: Oh absolutely. And you're taking out a lot of the autoimmune antibodies, the immunoglobulins, the toxins, the DDT, the PCBs, the hexachlorobenzenes, the mercury, the arsenic. Those are the types of things that could be very high in your blood and that you may benefit from doing this.

Lp(a) and Cardiovascular Applications

Lisa: But also there is a study that I read around cardiovascular and lipids and Lp(a). So Lp(a) is when you have a genetic issue where you don't do well with your cholesterol getting it out. And this has also been shown in one of the studies in 2025 by Castillo-Alleman in Therapeutic Apheresis and Dialysis. And the Lp(a) story is particularly important because there are a lot of people dealing with this genetic thing and it doesn't respond very well to diet and exercise or statins or any other sort of available way of dealing with cardiovascular risk factors. So this is one of the only things that reliably lowers it. So really an important thing to think about from a cardiovascular point of view.

Living in a Toxic World

Lisa: And if we as humans living in this environment — our babies come out poisoned. We are just living in a toxic soup. If you're a human on planet Earth at the moment, we get exposed to things that we don't feel. We don't feel all these toxins entering our body, whether it's through our food or the pesticides, all of that type of thing that's in our environment. So we really have to be proactive at detoxing, much more so than our grandparents had to, or in past centuries where we didn't have all these chemicals in our environment to cause us all this problem.

Lisa: So being active about it is really important. And we're living longer, so that is great, but it also means that we are dealing with more age-related diseases from systemic inflammation, from cancers popping up, all of those things that happen when you get older more and more. So being proactive and getting rid of those inflammatory and dangerous toxins in the body has got to be good from a longevity point of view.

Tash: Absolutely. And inflammation is — we age because of inflammation. So if we can take out that inflammation, that's got to help us age better, I think.

Lisa: Yeah. I interviewed Dr David Furman from the Buck Institute at Stanford University and actually we based our formulation at my company around their research. This was a human immunology study and they basically said the immune system is fundamental to aging well. And the biggest thing is systemic chronic inflammation that goes up over time. And this is stuff you don't feel. You just do not feel it. And people are always looking for quick fixes — "I want to feel good again" — but they're actually ignoring the fundamentals of what's actually going on in the body to make them feel less energy and all that. It's not about having a Red Bull to get your energy levels up or a caffeine drink. People often expect that from every supplement or therapy. There's no sort of instant fix.

What to Expect During Treatment

Lisa: This is something that takes time. With INUSpheresis, what is the normal protocol? Are you doing a couple of sessions with most people? Is there a time gap between the sessions? Ideally, does it depend on how sensitive the individual is?

Tash: So typical — I can talk about that. There's typical for a healthy person. For a healthy person like me, you can do two treatments in a week. And really how it works is you fill out a medical questionnaire and that goes to my husband Dr Simons. He has a look at it, has a telephone consult with the patient for 20 minutes to ask questions and depending on their health — if they're healthy and well and time is of the essence — then you can do two treatments in a week. If you have something like chronic fatigue or you are struggling with your health, quite often he would be recommending longer time between treatments because it's a serious medical treatment and you're in the clinic for like three to four hours.

Tash: Approximately 75% of your plasma is being filtered and cleaned. It's a big readjust for your body. So you come in and a nurse is with you for the whole time. Robbie cannulates the patient. So that basically means a needle goes into one arm for the blood to come out, to go through the machine, and the red blood cells and the plasma are separated. The plasma goes through the double filtration device. The clean plasma and the red blood cells meet back up, go through a cannula into your other arm.

Lisa: So it's never leaving that circuit, is it? Nothing is ever leaving that circuit. And this is very important because when you do TPE — total plasma exchange — you're getting somebody else's albumin. You don't know what you're getting.

Tash: You're not getting other people's anything. It's your own body going through that machine in terms of filtering toxins and chemicals and inflammation. And then your clean plasma — and anything from one and a half to two and a half litres of your blood is being cleaned, which is substantial. And 75% of your plasma is substantial. Basically throughout that process Robbie pops in to see how the patient is going. If a nurse needs him, he's available. And at the end of the treatment he pops in to see how the patient's going. And obviously you have that bag, the eluate bag.

Lisa: And it's really interesting to see what comes out. If you just go on YouTube and have a look at people going through the procedure, it's quite an interesting thing. You see these bags of yucky looking stuff coming out of your body.

Tash: Quite disturbing to see. And a lot of it is normal stuff that should be there. But so positive that it's coming out of your body and then your clean plasma is going back in. People generally feel tired afterwards. I can attest to that. I felt tired afterwards. Had a few people feel energised, which is really interesting. But no matter how you feel, the advice is to go home and rest.

Tash: And then the next day — if you're healthy and well, I actually went to work the next day. If you're struggling with your health, then it can take anything from a couple of days to a couple of weeks for your body basically to readjust to the new norm. And that's why Robbie, depending on the patient's circumstances, will make an assessment of what he thinks is a good idea between treatments. Anything from a week to maybe three or four weeks, just depending on the person. He'll discuss that with them because basically he wants to get the best outcome for them.

Tash: So that's why that whole process is in place — getting their information, talking to them. Also you need to have some blood tests before you have the treatment, just to check everything in terms of functions. You're being monitored the whole time with your heart rate, your blood pressure. So it's very safe. That's a nice thing to be able to say as well.

The Two Filters Explained — TKM58 and INUS 30

Lisa: Yeah. And there's a lot of experience. Like I said before, this has been 40, 50 years in the making to get to this level of expertise and there have been literally thousands and thousands of people who have gone through various iterations of this. So that brings us to the filters that you use, because I did want to point this out.

Lisa: Filter one — the plasma separator. The blood comes out of the patient through the IV line, hits the membrane, and then the plasma — the liquid component — separates from the red blood cells and white blood cells and platelets. The blood cells never leave the circuit. Most importantly they go straight into a holding line to be reunited with the clean plasma later. This is standard across all apheresis technologies.

Lisa: But filter two is the interesting one — the fractionator. This is where INUSpheresis differs. The separated plasma passes through a second membrane with precisely calibrated pore sizes so that everything above a certain molecular weight gets trapped in the filter and everything else passes through.

Lisa: INUSpheresis uses two different fractionators depending on the clinical goal. The TKM58 — this is a broad-spectrum filter where the pore size is calibrated to trap autoantibodies like your IgG, IgM, immune complexes, inflammatory cytokines like interleukin-1 beta, interleukin-6, TNF-alpha — sort of the cytokines of aging — oxidised LDL, fibrinogen, environmental toxins that are protein-bound, heavy metals, PCBs, dioxins, pesticide residues, microplastics and large inflammatory mediators. This is the filter that's used for things like long COVID, CFS, ME, autoimmune conditions, Lyme disease, environmental toxicity.

Lisa: And then there is another filter, the INUS 30. This is a lipid-targeted filter with a smaller pore size, designed to specifically capture LDL cholesterol, lipoprotein(a) and fibrinogen while sparing even more of the mid-range proteins. So this is the cardiovascular and longevity application. Particularly important for people who suffer with Lp(a), which is genetically determined and doesn't respond well to diet and exercise. And many toxins are lipid-bound, including to cell membranes.

Lisa: So the waste gets trapped in the filter and that's called the eluate — that you see in the bag. This is an orangey-brown liquid that comes from oxidised lipids, bilirubin metabolites and protein-bound toxins. Normal plasma is pale yellow and translucent. The eluate is visibly a dramatic browny colour depending on how toxic you are, which really shows you what's in there. And then you can get that tested — it's an extra test you can pay for — to have that breakdown and see what was really in there and what you've cleaned out. Did I get all that sort of nailed?

Tash: Absolutely. You got it.

Who Could Benefit — Hard Cases and Longevity

Lisa: Yeah, there's a lot to learn about. But I'm really excited about it because I'm dealing with a lot of clients that are really difficult, hard-nut-to-crack type of cases that I think could benefit from this. And it's great that it's down in the Southern Hemisphere. They don't have to go all the way to Switzerland or Germany to have a treatment done. Having something in Australia, not far from New Zealand — you can pop over perhaps on a holiday and do this type of thing. I think that's going to be really important for anyone dealing with heavy metals or autoimmune or these types of things.

Lisa: And again, I'll put some of the references down below so you can see what the studies are, the status of those studies, and where things are at. But it's a very exciting thing to be able to offer to people. And I'm really glad that you've got this now available. And there's very low risk with this. This is a very safe undertaking really, isn't it? Has anybody ever had any downsides?

Safety Record

Tash: We haven't come across any serious side effects. And in fact INUSpheresis has done more than 70,000 treatments globally. And they haven't got any serious side effects that they've reported to us from this treatment. The basic things — anyone putting a cannula into your vein, obviously there's a risk of infection or it might be itchy or sore — but we haven't come across anything. And with the more than 100 that we've done, everyone has gone well, which is a great thing to be able to say. And that it is a safe procedure is also important for people to know.

Autoimmune Conditions, Alzheimer's and Lyme Disease

Lisa: Yeah. Absolutely. And things like autoimmune conditions — there's studies on that specifically. If the pathology is driven by circulating autoantibodies, physically removing them should help. So if you're dealing with an autoimmune condition, it'd be wise to have a consult with Dr Robbie to see whether this could be something you could look into.

Lisa: Then there's things like Alzheimer's disease or cognitive issues. Because anything that is inflammatory to the brain — being able to take out some of those inflammatory chemicals and things would be very beneficial for brain health. The Bornstein group has published on CRP reduction in Alzheimer's patients using apheresis. The hypothesis connects to the lipid-inflammation-neurodegeneration axis — clearing peripheral inflammatory mediators reduces neuroinflammation via the blood-brain barrier. This is early stage and the sample sizes are small at the moment, but that's a very promising area.

Lisa: And then Lyme disease. Dr Straube has published on INUSpheresis for chronic Lyme. Those are some of my most difficult cases. Lyme cases and mould cases are also very difficult. And they show significant CRP reductions. The mechanism is autoantibody and inflammatory mediator clearance. Post-Lyme syndrome is increasingly understood as a post-infectious autoimmune inflammatory state rather than a persistent infection, which makes it mechanistically similar to the long COVID picture.

Lisa: So those are some of the things that you might be dealing with that you may want to dive deeper into — getting a consult with Dr Robbie to see whether that is something that could be beneficial. So if you're sitting there listening to this and you've got one of those or all of the above, it might be worth having a conversation and seeing if it's appropriate.

Growing Adoption and Educating Doctors

Lisa: So where do you think this is going to go from here? How's the adoption been so far?

Tash: So basically when we started, obviously we contacted a number of doctors to let them know about it. And most doctors have no idea about apheresis, so there was an educational component to that. Robbie and I ran some information sessions for some doctors here. We provided some information to them. But we also found out that there were some doctors and cardiologists suggesting their patients go to Europe. So they were really happy to find that we're doing it in Perth.

Tash: Because I just spoke to somebody yesterday who was going to go to Germany to have it and was really relieved to hear that they can do the treatment here. So it's definitely something new, and educating people about it is so important because like you said, there are a lot of people that can be helped with this treatment.

Cost and Accessibility

Lisa: And this is quite an expensive treatment and it is privately funded. So what can people — ballpark figure depending on whether you have one or two — give people a ballpark figure?

Tash: So basically the protocol is two. The reason it's two — from my layman's understanding — is that the first treatment obviously takes out what we've discussed, and then the body readjusts and will often release more toxins. So that's why they've got a protocol of two, to capture those toxins that are released later after having the first treatment. And also I understand the second treatment goes deeper into the tissue to help remove inflammation, which is obviously a reason many people are having INUSpheresis.

Tash: So two treatments is the standard protocol. If you're chronically unwell, Dr Simons may recommend more than two treatments. Some people — I know Germany sometimes has recommended anything from four to six treatments over a longer period of time. So that's something Robbie speaks to the patient about and works out a plan.

Tash: In terms of costs, it is $12,000 for the two treatments. It is expensive. And look, I know the family member that went across four and a half years ago paid $14,000 — so it has come down somewhat and you're making it closer to home. Unfortunately the filters we use that we have to get from Switzerland are one-use filters. So they're really expensive to buy and expensive to get here. And then obviously the machines and all the consumables that go along with it. We've tried our best to make it affordable where we can.

Tash: We're looking at the moment also to see if there are other options in terms of how we can help people out over a longer time. If we can, we will.

Lisa: Absolutely. And this is like — unfortunately with all the longevity, the incredible stuff that's happening — it always starts out expensive and then over time as more people do it and it becomes more widely available and there's a higher demand and the cost per unit goes down with the filters and so on, these things become cheaper and more accessible for more people. And I think we need to look at it through that lens too — things might be quite expensive but on the other hand, how much is your health worth? If you can't work, that's still — it's a lot of money and maybe you need to borrow some, or you might need to — I always laugh, I run around in the most old banged-up car because I'd rather spend my money on longevity things to keep my loved ones alive than have a flash car or flash clothes.

Tash: You say that — someone recently said people don't think twice about spending $50,000 on a car, but investing in our health is a really important thing.

Lisa: I agree. The only thing — it's just one of my things. I just don't get it. People — I mean if you don't have the money then that's clear. But a lot of the people that I'm talking to are driving around in their $100,000 cars but they can't afford the treatments. And it's like, I'd sell the car to get the treatment. That would be my approach. I think until you don't have your health, you don't value it.

Tash: Exactly.

Lisa: Yeah. Prevention — it's always hard to sell insurance. That's what I always say. Because people always wait until they're up the creek, so to speak, without a paddle before they actually take action. And I can tell you from experience that is way more expensive than doing some preventative stuff or catching stuff early or being proactive. With my mom, I've literally spent a house on her to keep her going and keep her alive and happy. But what's more important — my mom, or having more money to invest or more money in another house or whatever? My mom's more important to me. So I'll invest as much as I possibly can. And I think it's prioritising these things. But hopefully over time these will become cheaper too.

Lisa: A lot of the things that I introduce people to on the podcast is unfortunately quite expensive stuff. But it is getting better. I mean I run a hyperbaric clinic — that used to be way more expensive than what it is now. It still costs quite a lot to buy your own chamber but it's way more doable than it was a decade ago when I started in it. So these things do democratise over time and we can just hope that's the case here.

Subtractive Medicine — The Bigger Picture

Lisa: Now I did want to just before we wrap up the conversation — the bigger picture is subtractive medicine. We're always thinking in terms of health about adding things in. We add in drugs, we add in supplements, we add in hormones, we add in nutrients — which is all additive. But some of the emerging longevity science is telling us that a huge part of aging and chronic disease is driven by accumulation — stuff accumulating in the body. Inflammatory mediators, autoantibodies, oxidised lipids, environmental toxins, microplastics, senescent cell secretions, misfolded proteins.

Lisa: These are all — the body's clearance systems — liver, kidneys, lymphatics, autophagy — these all decline with age. The ability to get rid of these things out of your body decreases, so the body gets overwhelmed by the modern toxic exposure. So thinking about subtractive medicine — which is actually getting rid of the bad rather than just putting in good stuff, which we certainly want to do, we want to put in the right nutrients, the right supplements — but I think it's important to think about it from a subtractive and an additive type of formula when you're thinking about your health. Would you agree with that?

Tash: Absolutely. And that's something my husband often says. It's probably more important to look at what you can take out or change with your health before — like you say — you're adding things. In terms of your diet and so many things, including something substantial like INUSpheresis where they're taking out these things. But also just your diet plays such an important role in your health and people — the thing he says — that people love the most in terms of what they eat is probably the thing causing all the problems.

Lisa: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Tash: He told me I had to take dairy out of my diet. I was just devastated when I met him. But honestly, I took dairy out of my diet and I was a bad asthmatic 16 years ago. And I went without dairy for a year and I haven't touched a Ventolin or had any form of asthma since taking dairy out. And I have had so many steroids as a child. I was hospitalised. So many drugs. Taking dairy out of my diet and all my asthma went.

Lisa: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I mean I was a severe asthmatic as a kid too. And just through all my adult years, my whole running career was impacted by the fact I had a small lung capacity after all the asthma. It affected — the steroids affected my teeth, my bones, everything, because I was just on Ventolin my entire childhood. So yeah, I can relate to that. And I don't have any asthma now at all because I've cleaned up a lot of my diet and I've also put in things that are supportive of dealing with the extra histamine and things that stabilise it.

Lisa: So it's really important to think of it from that subtractive and additive approach. Not just the additive, but what can I take out that could actually be beneficial. So really relate to that.

Why the Two-Treatment Protocol Makes Sense

Lisa: Oh Tash, this has been absolutely fascinating. Have we covered everything?

Tash: I think so. I think so. Thank you, Lisa.

Lisa: Yeah, no I think there's a lot to it, isn't there?

Tash: It is a lot, but I feel like you've done an amazing job with all the science. And it's nice to be able to let people know that this is out there and hopefully it might be something that may be able to help some people.

Lisa: Absolutely. And just one thing before I go — I like the idea that because a lot of our toxins are actually stored in the cells, in the fat cells and things, having the initial treatment and then getting a second one makes sense to me just from a mechanistic point of view. That the body is going to release more out of the cells that are maybe packed and stored away somewhere protecting you. You get rid of some of the dangerous stuff. I wonder whether the body — don't quote me, this is not a clinical statement — but I'm wondering does that give the body a chance to release more that's in storage into the system? And then you can go and clean up with a second crew, so to speak.

Tash: Yeah. And that's my understanding of why there is that second treatment.

Healthcare Rebates in Europe — The Future for Australia

Tash: And the other thing just that I realised I missed to say is that you quite rightly said that it's been going on in Europe for so many years and many places around the world. But even in Europe I was really amazed to see that there's many places that if you're a citizen you get a healthcare rebate on that. That is the way of the future. And I would really hope that in five years' time — that's my dream — to be able to put a case to Medicare, have some clinical studies and to be able to get that happening in Australia would be a dream.

Lisa: Wouldn't that be amazing? And this is like — I lived in Austria for 13 years. I lived in Vienna. And they have always been way, way, way ahead of the curve in Germany and Austria and Switzerland. They're very proactive. I remember back then you could actually go off on sort of cures where you could go off for a holiday and just have two weeks of downtime and that was paid for. They really take the prevention side of things seriously over there and much more open, and very high levels of expertise. I think that gets underestimated and I wish that we would follow in the same footsteps. So hopefully in time things will happen.

Lisa: But in the meantime it is a private thing. You'll have to pay privately — but it's the same with hyperbaric. You've got to pay privately for hyperbaric as well. But people do because they know that it works.

How to Contact INUSpheresis Perth

Lisa: Tash, you've been wonderful today. I think we've covered a whole lot. Hopefully I didn't miss anything and Dr Robbie's pleased with what we covered. It's been a fascinating dive for me just to go into all of this and to have another thing that I can offer my clients. And I will be sending people your way for sure — especially those difficult cases where you're fighting an uphill battle with standard stuff and where supplements and things are not cutting it. This could be very beneficial for a lot of people. So thanks Tash. It's been great.

Tash: Thanks Lisa. Thanks for your time.

Lisa: So Dr Robbie Simons — if you're wanting to get in touch with them and just have a preliminary conversation about whether this is something that might be appropriate in your case, how can they do that? Where do they reach out to?

Tash: If you go to inuspheresisperth.com.au you can submit a new patient form online or give us a call. There's a number there to call as well. And we'll do everything we can to help you. What's nice about us is that we're a small clinic. I feel that everybody who walks through the door is going to get genuine care and attention. We're not — there's not 10 doctors. It's just Robbie and our nursing team. It's the old-fashioned kind of way it used to be. And I think people really like that and they feel that they're genuinely being looked after. So yeah, if they want to contact us, please put in a new patient form or give us a call and we can organise a consult with Robbie, or if there's simple questions someone will be able to answer them. And we can hopefully see if we can help.

Lisa: Yeah. And you can fly in and fly out. So you can do a virtual consult beforehand and get all the tests done and things prior to organising it and making sure that you can then just go over to Perth if you're not in Perth. Because there'll be a lot of people listening to this all around New Zealand, Australia, America, that might want to be popping down. So that's doable.

Lisa: Think about all of those aspects. I congratulate you on getting this through because I know how difficult it is to get anything through in the medical world. So congratulations on the hard work that obviously went into doing that and to being proactive. And I love Dr Robbie's approach to being open-minded to all of these things that are happening. And this one has a huge track record. Like, it really does — 40, 50 years of the initial iterations and then the development that Dr Straube's done and all of that and ICE Medical is now doing. So absolutely amazing and really worth your time to have a try at this.

Tash: Thanks Lisa. Thanks for your time.

About Rejuvenate Pro

If INUSpheresis takes the bad stuff out, you want to protect what stays behind. Rejuvenate Pro from Aevum Labs targets the chronic systemic inflammation that silently drives aging — featuring kawakawa, carnosic acid, Immunel colostrum extract and IDP (Immune Defense Protein). It's the first supplement in every protocol I build for my clients — and it should be in yours.

Links mentioned in this episode:

INUSpheresis Perth — Book a Consult

Rejuvenate Pro

Lisa Tamati Supplement Store

Lisa's Books

Pushing the Limits Podcast

Newsletter Signup