EP 161: Photobiomodulation - What it is and how it helps. With Dr Lew Lim

For brain health, healing, hormone healt and  cognitive enhancement, from to meditative states,  to studies on alzheimers and dementia - Photobiomodulation has a promising future

Dr Lew Lim, PhD, MD, MBA has been studying photobiomodulation (PBM) and low-level light therapy for over 30 years. In the mid 1990's he invented intranasal photobiomodulation as a non-invasive method of introducing therapeutic photonic energy into the human body. He is the founder of vielight.com which brings intranasal and transcranial devices using photobiomodulation to the consumer.
 
Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience.
To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this podcast go to 
www.vielight.com
Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.
For more information on photobiomodulation and this area of medicine visit https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5215795/
 
About Dr Lew Lim
Dr. Lew Lim is an engineer with additional diplomas in Medical Neuroscience and Business and Accountancy. He obtained his degrees and diplomas from the University of California at Berkeley, University of Sheffield, Duke University, Quantum University and The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, UK.
 
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When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.
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Transcript of the Podcast

Speaker 1: (00:01)
Welcome to pushing the limits. The show that helps you reach your full potential with your host. Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisatamati.com

Speaker 2: (00:11)
We'll come back to pushing the limits and thank you for joining me once again, super excited. I have a dr. Lew Lim, who's going to be sharing his insights about something called photo biomodulation. Now, dr. Lim is the founder and CEO of vielight.com. And this is the device that, uh, uses lasers to stimulate the brain and to stimulate healing. And he's going to do a deep dive into the topic of photobiomodulation. Now, this has been a big part of my mom's recovery, so really excited to be able to share these insights with you. Now, before we get over to the show, just want to remind you to check out my book. Relentless. If you haven't got a copy, why not? Why haven't you got a copy yet? You must go and get a copy. It's available in bookstores all throughout New Zealand. It's also available online at my website, at least photometry.com, which has all the international links via Amazon and audio books, Kendall, etc..

Speaker 2: (01:10)
So it's available all around the world and it's called relentless how a mother and daughter defied the odds. And I really love you to read a copy, get inspired, get empowered, to take control of your own and your loved one's health and not to just wait around thinking that everything's going to be all right. That's what the show is about. Is it empowering for your health, for your performance and taking control a little bit more in your own life, right over to the show now with dr. L,ew Lim and I do hope you enjoy this awesome interview.

Speaker 2: (01:45)
Hi everyone. And welcome back to this week's episode of pushing the limits today. I have a very special guest and I've been wanting to interview this wonderful doctor for a long, long time. Um, he, he has whether he's known it or not influenced my mom's journey with her recovery. And as you, my listeners will know, uh, with mom's brain aneurysm. I we've done a lot of tricks to find answers to help her. And this was one of the ones that I went down. So today I have dr. Lew Lim from the Vielight company with us, dr. Lew, welcome to the show. Thank you for inviting me to speak with you. It's very exciting to talk to you. You're an incredible man, an incredible scientist, uh, and you, you, you're an engineer, you have an MBA and you're a neuroscientist in a natural doctor. Ha ha. How ha how do you do all of that in one lifetime? And my emphasis today is really on this field of photobiomodulation photobiomodulation spread out the, a lot of areas

Speaker 3: (03:00)
As you might probably know. So it covers anything from aesthetic cosmetic when healing, um, skin, rejuvenation, hair growth, and, you know, um, even, um, affecting, when you, when you go into the facade physiological site, it can affect your, uh, blood circulation. You know, you can, um, can help with pain and that cause for, um, an understanding of the, what the different parameters can do it, the mechanisms. And, uh, but we, you know, I feel that there's a lot to be discovered for the brain and what it can do. So there's my mind. My emphasis is I guess it requires, um, background in of course neuroscience and these ologies natural medicine engineering thing that plays a very big part. So it of skills together.

Speaker 2: (04:07)
So photo biomodulation, it's a very big word. And a lot of people probably haven't even heard of what that is. Can you break that down? That the photo part, the bio part and the modulation part and what it actually means?

Speaker 3: (04:22)
Yeah. Um, for, for a long time, this, this whole field was first discovered in 1967. So you went through the process of being called for therapy, cold laser therapy, low level laser therapy. Um, for many years it was known as low level light therapy because it doesn't necessarily have to be laser. And a few years ago, the scientists in this world got together and say, Hey, we've got to have a unifying description of what, what is modality is. And we can go ahead and register with the medical. I think it's like a medical library in the U S then you could get codes and be recognized. And so and so on. And so I guess people got together and decided, okay, let's call it photobiomodulation. And I thought, this is a really big word, but I guess over the last few years, it kind of got more and more accepted and now it flows off people's tongue more easily. And, uh, for those like, you know, bio it's to do with the biology, the organisms in your body, and so on a modulation is to change, modify, or either, uh, generally we aim for the good, but overdoing, it can be bad, so it's actually modulating and modifying the party.

Speaker 2: (05:54)
So, so when we talk about, you know, we think about, I know a lot of ladies out there would be a know that lasers are very good for the skin. You'd go to your local, um, beautician and they do laser therapy, uh, for, for skin rejuvenation. Um, I know that there was a study, a, an older study on, um, rats or mice where the here the hair grew. So they use it for here, regeneration for skin regeneration. Um, but there's, there's a whole lot more to lasers. Uh, and, and, and photobiomodulation then just, uh, here and skin, um, can you explain the different wave links and what they do and the different colors of the spectrum, if you like, uh, of the, the, the, the photo spectrum or the wavelengths and what, what they do the different, the different wavelengths in the power of the hand.

Speaker 3: (06:45)
So when you talk about photobiomodulation, we're mainly referring to red and near infrared light, and why do we constrain, you know, this, this is his window. And that's for several reasons, we, you know, you have, if you go to the high energy, N that would be a blue and go to ultraviolet going, then you go the extra gamma rays. So then you have the longer way flying beyond new, for ready to get fined for red. Then you get into microwave and radio waves. So it gives you a sense that these are all electromagnetic waves. So it's not like they're all light. They're not all like x-ray. And, um, that covers, you know, the covers radio waves. So it gives you a sense that the longer the wavelength, the further it penetrates radio waves goes through anything, shorter wavelengths, high energy. It doesn't penetrate much, not even the skin.

Speaker 3: (07:52)
When you go into the ratio, grape Lang shorter than say, ultra violence. And then you go into X experience, so on, but very high energy can start getting you to imaging, but that's a, but then you get into that spectrum where it can mutate, you know, they call it ionizing until your DNA and cause you problems like cancer, but I absorbed by the mitochondria and the cells mitochondria are, uh, mainly known to be responsible for your energy. So energy, energy, anything will do you think involves, uh, energy from nomadic mitochondria now? So the absorption is mainly within the mitochondria. There is something called the respiratory chain, electronic transport chain and we all. And so those of us who study biology will remember that it is responsible for creating the energy. So this your ITP yup. The ATP and the theory is red and infrared light gets absorbed in the respiratory chain that releases more ATP E and freeze is naturally oxide.

Speaker 3: (09:13)
Um, that's clogged up in the chain and causes the cell to function below normal, to freeze that nitric oxide goes into your body. It helps with circulation because that's what nitric oxide does. Then it does other things like, you know, has released a transient free, radical ROS, reactive oxygen species, which also signaling molecules. Then at least with gene transcription, creating this protein that helps to heal. So you get your skin rejuvenation because it releases these proteins create these proteins that causes healing tissues, that improve collagen level. So that kind of thing. So, so it's mainly written your infrared. Like there are some, uh, debate now about whether it is mainly for many years. Uh, most of us have been thinking that you've seen the enzyme called cytochrome C oxidase in the, one of the respiratory chain doing, doing this, but today maybe it's not, maybe it is, it is to do with, um, you know, that, uh, trans um, well, that's the membrane the, well, I forget, but it's the, the membrane, the, the water, the membrane, the water and the memory layer. So that, that it may actually reduce the viscosity and help the, uh, some people call it nano meter, but it creates more ATP that we were able to do that better.

Speaker 2: (10:53)
Okay. So, so,

Speaker 3: (10:56)
Yep.

Speaker 2: (10:57)
So mitochondria as a word, you know, that, um, is extremely important. I don't think a lot of people understand what mitochondria do. So mitochondria are like the little power packs and every single cell when it's actually a, an ancient bacteria, that's coming to the human, uh, system billions of years ago when we were evolving and the mitochondria is responsible for, uh, the synergy production in the cell. So when you have a photo biomodulation device from say your company, and it is sending in a read or near infrared light wave, the mitochondria is stimulates the mitochondria without going into the biochemical processes, but it stimulates the mitochondria to create more energy and more energy for healing. Is it sort of a very, you know, high level sort of layperson's overview of how that works?

Speaker 3: (11:57)
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess, you know, it comes down to something called on gene transcription. So the listen to this. So, um, so I guess energy's a very easy, easy way to remember it, but it's very involved producing the right proteins. Um, you don't want to overdo it, you know, when you already do it, you overwhelm, you produce more free radicals than you want to. And again, negatively Frank. So, so some understanding of that, you know, it being low level and, um, just do the necessary thing and not overdo it, not doing it too often can lead to good things. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (12:43)
Yeah. Okay. So, so it's a bit like, uh, you know, exercise, you know, the right amount of exercise is good for us doing too much is not good for us or not. You know, this is why you build your fitness, um, up and in the body. Uh, so it creates a hormetic stress. If you like, is that what, uh, the, the, these devices are doing? So the light is doing, creating a hermetic stress that has them, or is it

Speaker 3: (13:11)
Actually, there's a lot of similarity, right? Too much of exercise to reduce the stress comes with a lot of free radicals, free radicals, not EBIT, not being able to clear it, you know, and then even under some sort of stress because, um, I actually, there was just a paper that was published a few days ago. The thing that mitochondria is also linked to the anxiety level, this is stress is you create this unnecessary Mount of all. It's not, you, you're getting the stress hormones in your body in, in the same way this it's causing you anxiety. So for the mitochondria, uh, wellbeing is key. You want to release it from stress. So I guess that's one of the reasons why a low level light therapy for the biomodulation is helpful because it just supports the mitochondrial respiratory chain, this whole functionality to reduce it. So that's one way to look at it

Speaker 2: (14:25)
And you've developed, so you have a company called Vielight. So everyone we're going to, you know, put the, the links in the show notes to the devices that be like hairs and all the publications and all clinical studies around these incredible devices. And for those watching on the, uh, the video channel here, um, these are two of the devices that I've had for a number of years. And dr. Lew, you've got the most advanced one there. Um, so I've got the nasal. Wow. That's a serious piece of kit.

Speaker 3: (14:59)
Yeah. He goes, there's one, that's like yours. He goes to the brain. Right. Brilliant.

Speaker 2: (15:09)
So for those watching on video, you can see dr. Lew has the neuro, which is one of the big transcranial photobiomodulation devices and the ones that I've got here, I've got a six, five, five prime intra-nasal. So, and the another one where the infrared wavelengths of 18, and I use those both pretty much every day to every second day for 20 minutes. Um, and look how good my brain's going. And more importantly, how good my mum's brain is now going. Um, so can you explain why intra-nasal, so we have to get the light on the inside of the body in order for this to work. Now, it's pretty hard to get light through your, we have a, we know about vitamin D synthesis will mirror in the sun, um, and what an avalanche of things that, that causes in the body. Good things. Um, can you explain why intra-nasal and other, other methods to get it into the bottle?

Speaker 3: (16:13)
Yeah, there is, uh, you know, we've, we've got this, this, uh, invented discovered, uh, in actually about 15 years ago now actually like quite a long time already. And, and, uh, so when we got to working, because this whole field of photobiomodulation in the eighties got into a stage where the Russians started to introduce intravenous and infrared light. Now, the theory is you put it there instead of on your skin and you find more power is getting into your plus circulation directly. And what they found was it actually helps a number of things. You know, the circulation improves better users of recovery more quickly from, from injuries, from surgery. It seems to help with preventing failures and helping to recover. Then you led to studies of diabetes and finding that users are getting more of a better profile marker profile from your annual examination of medical exam.

Speaker 3: (17:43)
Then they, and then it wasn't really fully understood for a long time, but they know that effect is systemic. Uh, and quite a lot of what we've done later in, uh, researchers in Israel, but finding a Randy, the right, like in animal study, um, to the female of the type bone of the, of the rodent. And they had a Scot hot tissue from simulated heart attack, or from simulator, uh, brain injury or disease, we found that the recovery is better and they can, can see the improvement in the markers as well. Wow. And in the, um, in the not too long ago, I think a few, a few years ago, the researchers in Australia, particularly at university of Sydney, was trying to understand because they were doing studies in Parkinson's in animals. And, uh, they found, uh, similar experiments, you know, mice or arrests. They were bred with transgenic rests with Parkinson's symptoms, uh, actually improved when they erected, like to the, the time. Wow. They did that with, uh, later on sustaining mice with Alzheimer's disease.

Speaker 3: (19:17)
Wow. I think there is the funding now, or to do a study on what happens if you do a probe into the brain they're actually done in animals and found that it seems to improve the markers in that area of the brain. Wow. So, so like does something, he does, you know, very close to it. It helps a lot, even though it's far away from me, it has this systemic effect. And it's trying to explain it at the time the, you know, some descriptions are used, like abscopal effect kind of like cancer, where you have to one side, another side of their body response, they are equally circulating factors, but not being what it was, but it was just, I think last, last year in 2019, that there was a paper published showing that, uh, there are lots of free floating mitochondria in your body, in the blood.

Speaker 3: (20:17)
So now we understand that [inaudible] affects the mitochondria. Now, what if you have now circulating mitochondria all the way the body. Wow. And then they kind of really, it just rung a bell, you know, too many of us that said, you know, that's one of the main explanations of why, you know, it has a system, your friend, because mitochondria is in the blood, your blood circulates through your system several times a minute. So guess all over your body. And there was another study in Montreal, two, three years back, three or four years back where the mitochondria also gets deposited, deposited into various parts of the body where it is needed. So you put all these together. It kind of explains from the nose and the nose is good because the, the blood vessels, the, you know, close to the surface, the membrane, so capitalism, very close, pretty tense. Then this is where it gets, you know, it gets all the whole body.

Speaker 2: (21:27)
So you, when you, you stick it up your nose, so I'm going to demonstrate for those watching on video. Basically you put it up your nose like this, and, uh, this is the 18. Um, so there's not there's. So all the blood in the body is going past this, this area here, isn't it. So it's actually, those light waves are hitting your entire blood supply through the, the intra-nasal delivery mechanism. Is that right?

Speaker 3: (21:54)
Yeah. That the nasal area is actually one of the areas where there's more blood capillaries per square centimeter, and most parts of the body isn't necessarily because, um, you know, it controls the moisture level, you know, and then you get processed very quickly. Now I'm involved in quite a lot of research on the brain and that's, that's quite important when we use the eight, 10 metal meters. It penetrates deeper. Certainly here's the olfactory bulb and all factors. Bob is always a part of your brain and there's a direct channel to the memory area, the hippocampus, the hippocampus, then we've noticed improvement in memory function. Um, so that led us to, you know, literally develop all these other things and do a clinical trial on Alzheimer's disease, which they're doing now. Um, he's also, there's a direct channel to the Thomas, which is telling us, does this, it, uh, it receives signals from other parts of body and disabilities to different parts of your brain to process it, but that the olfactory is very important. When you have a certain neurological condition, a number of other things, the, you lose the sense of smell. Wow. Early, before you went the other senses,

Speaker 2: (23:27)
That's one of the warning signs of Alzheimer's isn't it. And the left side, I believe when you lose or you smell

Speaker 3: (23:33)
Apparently. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (23:35)
It's an early detection. Um, uh, thanks. So the olfactory, so you, obviously you smell, uh, very closely connected or very close proximity to the hippocampus, which processes, memory, um, enter the hummus.

Speaker 3: (23:50)
No, you see, it has a direct connection actually to the hippocampus. Wow. Okay.

Speaker 2: (23:54)
Okay. So, um, so this is why it can have an effect. So when I'm putting the, the, the Vielight up my nose there, the 18 that is stimulating the mitochondria in the blood, that's passing that, that area, uh, in the brain, but also penetrating deeper into the, into the hippocampus, uh, into the development.

Speaker 3: (24:15)
No, it has to be technical. The direct channel is to the cortex, which is like a gateway to the hippocampus. They're kind of part of the whole system.

Speaker 2: (24:26)
You are doing a clinical trial at the moment with Alzheimer's patients. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when, when would this, uh, you know, be, you know, it's hard to comment on a clinical trial in the middle of it. Um, but what are you looking for? What's the hypothesis behind this, this clinical trial? What are you hoping to see?

Speaker 3: (24:47)
Well, we are totally suspended because of the pandemic. Of course, our target demographics actually moderate to severe patients dot companies have for a long time, try to, um, address the mother form, you know, because hopefully you get a result. Um, the trials generally fail, so this is the more cognitive impairment. So now drug companies are looking into, researching into a prodromal stage before the symptoms appear. Hopefully one day they get know, becomes a vaccine. You, uh, you use it and you prevent you from getting Alzheimer's disease and they don't, I guess they're going to pair it with, if you have copies of certain genes that are related.

Speaker 2: (25:52)
Yep. Just had mine tested so

Speaker 3: (25:58)
Happening right now, but there's a company Biogen and things because they got y'all just recently there's you got fast tracked by quick fostering review by FDA because it shows some, they reanalyze the whole data in one of the clinical trials and say, okay, maybe there's something that not sure the details, but you're counting, you know, to do a fast track to update, but you've got to understand that Alabama's disease is multifactorial involves many, many things. It does not a dessert genes. It's interplay of the genes. The markers are not, just am a lot better and alive aspect of it. And a growing number of scientists who believe that, uh, this long held belief or the para beta amyloid being the main thing is maybe not, you know, the progression of Alzheimer's maybe more to do with the tower towers where, uh, these markers are associated with your neurons strangling itself from the insight. Wow. Yeah. Just dealing with the pathogens and things that don't, you know, that, uh, outside of the neurons. So there are many, many, many things in play genes and genes. When you talk about gene is very, very complex, then there is other factors introduced. We found that if you're undergo stress brain injury, it just triggers it. I found that to be the case as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (27:38)
Yep. So, yeah. Um, so, so you, your trial's been suspended at the moment because of the pandemic. That's a, that's a real shame, but what are you, you've already had a number of trials done in the past, in different areas? What is it being showing in those trials? What have you managed to sort of show that uh, photobiomodulation does and delivering it through these mechanisms?

Speaker 3: (28:04)
Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, before I started, uh, just so the, the interesting thing about photobiomodulation is, and this, I guess it's relates to functional medicine where you try to address this whole problem at its most fundamental, basic level, which is the cell, the mitochondria mitochondria is everywhere. All the energy comes from there and a lot of other things happening. So I guess if we can tackle it at a very basic fundamental level, then these other symptoms and markers, they come many levels above, uh, can be, you know, hopefully you will try to resolve that

Speaker 2: (28:42)
Makes it makes so much sense. That makes so much sense to me. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: (28:47)
And so what we're, so for this particular demographics we're doing, uh, like I mentioned, moderate to severe, and they are pretty far advanced, you know, almost all of them require, uh, the involvement of caregivers because they're not independent. And, uh, and, uh, so we have a battery of tests that particularly apply to them the most of the cases, but, you know, case reports we use, uh, you know, tests for cognitive impairment, you know, um, ads, you know, as I might do these assessments of cognition, we use MMSC mini mental state exam. Uh, we have, uh, uh, yeah, these are amazing. And we have clinical, um, observation reports. And so we found that we, we did one, we started seriously studying Alzheimer's patients and dementia patient in 2015. Have you published this in 2017? It's a small number of cases with the new role you saw is pounds at 10 Hertz, 10 times a second.

Speaker 3: (30:08)
And that is we do it because it, uh, it used the data from animal study done at Harvard and Massachusetts general by Michael Henry's lab shows that it shows the animal recovery more quickly from brain injury. Wow. So we use 10 Hertz, but he hasn't explored a whole range of frequencies. So use that. It seems to help in this most studies then, uh, then, uh, university of California, San Francisco, uh, professors in the child did a complete, okay. Um, she wanted to replicate what we did and I said, okay, use 40 Hertz because 40 hers, um, in 2016, there were a lot of publications is to do, you know, it shows a 40 Hertz is gamma. This is associated with it's one. You find radio when you're your hippocampus trying to encode memory. So it shows 40 minutes of the memory coding. It helps to reduce the excited toxicity in the brain, you know, when you're in memory and stuff like that, MIT did a very published, very important study towards the end of 2016 dates. It showed that the rent, the direct, when like pals, when you put animals in a cage, the routers or the cage you pass like this externally 40 times a second for years, uh, they, they, uh, you know, the, the markers a better, more like count in a brain region.

Speaker 3: (31:51)
I've heard of that study. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've been using that. Yep. Right. So we thought, okay, they are still doing this. They're, they're still doing studies trying to do human studies. And what they found was the, the markers in the visual context reduced drastically, but not anywhere else on your body when your hippocampus. And I reckon that's because when the animals in the cage, you know, at 40 Hertz was processed to the eyes, goes to the visual cortex and then the markers significantly. Oh, so intra-nasal no, I in photobiomodulation what we do is we direct light renewing for relax. You can penetrate. Yep. And we target, uh, and the default mode network, which is closely associated also with Alzheimer's disease. And, um, so I, so I did a case, I did a single case and it wasn't published. It was presented in Alzheimer's conference.

Speaker 3: (33:00)
Uh, but Linda, uh, Linda told the, that on eight patients. Wow. And then what's yours. They improve, you know, over 12 weeks. And she also found that. So she's, uh, she's also a professor of radiology. You see? I said, so she used the MRI scan FMR. Oh, actually after 12 weeks, the, you know, the, the, the functions of the brain actually measured through FMR improves significantly as well. Wow. Improving the default mode network. So she did an independent study, the subjects, she used a similar scale EDS, coffin. She did the MRI and found that even through imaging, you know, it confirmed the anxious, but that's fantastic because, you know, you can argue about whether it should be a placebo study and all that, but imaging imaging.

Speaker 2: (34:07)
Exactly. You can't argue with it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 3: (34:12)
That was great that we are doing this,

Speaker 2: (34:16)
You use, so she's using the 40, uh, Hertz, um, w is it delivered through your, your devices or through the intra-nasal and transcranial? Yeah. So it's not, it's not like with the rat study where it's actually just in the, in the room, so to speak, it's actually getting, getting in to the, so that, that makes a whole lot of sense. And, um, so I'm pro functioned over a 12 week period is a pretty short period of time. Um, I wonder what would happen if you did that for a year, you know, w with, with

Speaker 3: (34:50)
No one, one thing about this and Alzheimer's disease, Alzheimer's disease, if neurodegenerative, so the person would just keep declining decline because of the genome, you know, the function of the genes and there's, uh, so there's not much you can do until you can maybe edit the genes or you can change the gene in some way. So users of our device will unfortunately have to use it forever for the rest of their lives, because this is the stop, the degeneration, but the good thing is our devices a home use. Yeah. So I have to say that, you know, this, this studies are just a few, a few subjects it's very easily dismissed with, you know, it's not statistically, so we reserve our judgment or claim until they've done the full study. So that's

Speaker 2: (35:56)
Yeah, but the thing is dr. Lew, if you have a loved one who has Alzheimer's now, and you have a, and this is a, you know, my approach with my mum, I can wait 10 years, 20 years for various clinical studies to prove it, say hyperbaric, uh, works or, uh, um, photobiomodulation works or, you know, these things, but these are pretty low risk, uh, interventions. Um, so my argument is, well, we'll let you know if it's my loved one. I'm definitely trying it, you know, like I wanna, uh, I want to use it even if these studies are preliminary studies and they're not yet fully accepted by the scientific community, there's a value for the person listening to this, recording her, um, you know, who wants to do something proactive now who has a loved one, who's suffering from something like this, um, to, to try, you know, um, and if, if we, you know, if we wait forever and to all of the clinical trials for everything is done, you know, we all have to weigh up our own, uh, risk reward scenario.

Speaker 2: (37:04)
Um, but you know, in the case of my mum, um, we've, you know, we were given no hope that she would ever have any quality of life. Again, massive brain damage, unable to even, she didn't know her name, no memory, no ability to move anything by having a, um, uh, an approach that says, well, I'm going to try everything that is fairly low risk. So I did the risk assessment on each of the interventions that I, that I used with here. And if it wasn't a high risk, I'm going to put it in the, in the bag to do, we're going to do this. And then multipronged approach. Now, I can't say specifically, uh, it was definitely the Vielight eight, one 10 that did it, or if it was the hyperbaric that did it, or if it was the functional genomics or the epigenetics or the new tropics, um, but it worked and she is an anomaly and she, she, she's an exceptional case. And I think it's really important that, you know, um, we have, uh, the right to sort of in these low risk technologies to have a go, you know, and try it. If, if you've got a loved one where it's time bound in you, you need help quickly. And this is why, you know, these preliminary studies are just as important, I think, as the full blown, um, you know, uh, clinical trials that costs a lot of money, um, to end a lot of time, a lot

Speaker 3: (38:36)
Of people's part to actually have. So I think it's exciting that we have these preliminary trials. Yeah, we, the devices and knowing those America, like the U S so we fall under the category. That is the guidelines or FDA defining this as a low risk general wellness device. So we're not regulated in the U S in Canada where we're based, we are considered a consumer device because it's same is low risk. It's a very similar category. So, uh, so we don't make a claim because it's not a medical device. So we have slightly modified version four for medical devices that are going, this is not a lot different, um, talking about what your mom's going through. We, we, um, we have a tall, a study that's going on at Boston university for traumatic brain injury. And again, that's suspended because of predominate, but that is a, there is an ongoing study and Margaret Liza, the professor there has published some papers already, and she's got, I think some that's not published, but she's taught quite a lot about, uh, you know, money, brain injury, getting treated with photobiomodulation, she's doing this study.

Speaker 3: (40:00)
We, what we have she's, uh, she's presented, she's done a number of presentations. I think that's being submitted of publications in the case of athletes, professional football players. So they go to repeat it, you know, banging on a head and to get again, a CTE CT, which is, uh, then they, when a, as they get older, they get this, the symptoms are similar to Alzheimer's disease. Dementia, degenerative what's happening is, is repeat your rebuild. It blows on the head has created a situation, right? It's the cow accumulates and starts strangling the neurons in your brain, shrink. It goes to the atrophy. Then you get to a stage where a number of them became suicidal. They get really depressed, you know, with atrophy, you're going to be cognitively impaired. There is a, a number of, um, you know, professional sports, men, football players who retired, who actually wrote, have written testimonials.

Speaker 3: (41:12)
They're trying to tell each other. And, uh, but again, we need to do this studies to, to, you know, to be sure that it is doing what we think is doing, but you can check yourself. One of them is every carr. His last name is C a R R. So you can Google it, find his blog. And he's talking about, you know, he was interviewed by several newspapers and his Billy for him . And he got, he learned about this because he went to, he went to the Boston university where they're supposed to be a hub of research football, or retired is a American football players brains. Or she ran, he ran and he ran the Sierra. And Ricky was like the big, probably the biggest name in the research for a city. And she connected him to Margaret Naser. We call it him. And now he's writing about it. Wow. You know, you have to prove it,

Speaker 2: (42:16)
Even though it's anecdotal. Yeah. It's anecdotal, but it's actually, it's one person's life that has been changed through this. Yeah. So Margaret nicer I'll I'll look her up. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (42:26)
No, the only one, there was another paper that just published with a professional hockey player, ice hockey, um, who got treated again by Linda Shaw at UCF. And he had, you know, bringing the jury on, started out his symptoms improve. And she did now what, what she did was very interesting. That's never been done. She, again, she's a professor of radiology and she found use MRI scan and found that his, his brain actually regrouped because MRI, they could measure the volume, the growth of volume in the brain. Wow. So that is, that is quite profound. I can send you this link. Hang on. Actually, it hasn't been published. I've got the pre-published.

Speaker 2: (43:17)
Do you want him to wait?

Speaker 3: (43:19)
Well, publication. So come combine frontiers of urology and maybe the next couple of issues. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (43:25)
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I mean, this is an exciting area of medicine that, you know, looking at all of these things, um, and, and whether it's for mitochondria for, for, for, for wellness and producing more energy and, you know, it's the basis of so many diseases as mitochondrial insufficiency and problems with the mitochondria. Um, so anything that can help support the mitochondria is going to help everybody probably. Um, um, so it's an exciting area that dr. Lou, I won't keep you much longer because you've been very, very generous with your time today. Um, it's been marvelous. I'm, I'm absolutely fascinated with this area, and I really want to thank you for the work you're doing, because it is due to people like you, uh, that, you know, the, one of the reasons why my mum is now completely normal again, after this long battle. Um, and it's one of the, the tools and devices that was very, very helpful for her.

Speaker 2: (44:25)
And no, I can't prove that clinically in the clinical trial setting, but that is my, uh, belief. Um, and, and therefore, it was really important for me to share this information about photobiomodulation and to give people the awareness, to be able to start to know what it is about, and to do a deeper dive for themselves and to watch out for the studies that are coming through and to try your devices out. So, dr. Lee, where can people, um, contact you and your team, um, and to check out the devices? Um, actually we've got a code. Um, I've got a code Thomas T just the word he at checkout. If anybody wants to buy one of dr. Lou's devices, um, you can use that and get a 10% discount. Just use the word Tommasi at checkout has team has called me, provided that, uh, for me. Um, so dr. Lou, where can they contact reach out to you and your team? Um, and what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 3: (45:22)
Yeah. Go to the website. You can, there is a page where you can ask questions or you write to info@vielight.com

Speaker 2: (45:31)
Info.com.

Speaker 3: (45:34)
Great. And yeah, we're so next, next time we can talk what he does for us.

Speaker 2: (45:39)
Okay, excellent. Yeah, because this is you. Yeah. You, you, you mentioned, uh, before we went into the interview and started recording that this is this new area that you're going into a, uh, for sports people, uh, to help with things like coordination and motor abilities. Um, so this is another very exciting area of research.

Speaker 3: (46:01)
Yeah. Yeah. And also how to handle the stress of a competition. That's huge. We're also about study study or meditation.

Speaker 2: (46:14)
Ah, that's what we haven't covered.

Speaker 3: (46:17)
Study comes out of rehabilitation. It's super exciting. It's, uh, we've, we've found that, uh, especially this is especially for longterm meditators and they get, uh, so long term meditators, gamma and praying, you know, they get switched on to that state quickly, but we can, um, you know, we have another device called in Europe where we can post from anything from zero to 10,000 and long term meditators have a window. You get into that particular frequency, they just get into an altered state right away. Wow. That's very exciting.

Speaker 2: (46:58)
That's exciting. So I'll be able to, you know, like instead of spending 40 years trying to work out how to meditate properly and to quickly get into these altered States that, that happen in meditation, we may be able to just put, plug in a device, your device and, uh, get there much, much quicker and to a relaxed and meditative state and have the right brainwaves going. So that's um, so you've got, can you just explain before we do wrap up, um, the different brainwaves and what is stimulated by, uh, the photobiomodulation and what, what is down-regulate

Speaker 3: (47:35)
As far as brainwaves skies? Yeah. We are noticing that we can use, you know, certain brainwaves influence of waves in the brain, uh, hopefully to, you know, for the brain function better. When your brain gets into a certain state where you're relaxed with your stress you're processing information, or you get into a certain zone, they can be identified with certain brainwave patterns. If you are suffering from attention deficit, your brain with patterns are exhibited in a certain way. We all different too. And so we recognize that and, and there's still a learning process, you know, uh, I can give you an example. You can be you maybe not able to focus and pay attention because see your brain is locked into very slow way and it's difficult to get out of it. And you've again, so it is hyper coherence. And if you can break that up, and I think there's a way to bring it up by introducing, uh, asynchronous patterns and you can free yourself of these locked-in wow.

Speaker 3: (48:52)
That's hypothetical, but we're going to do a lot of studies, uh, to do that. We got, we have a new, yeah, we have this very advanced model is going to beta testing now is going to help us explore because now you'll be able to see, okay, this person is getting, EEG is looking this way is not right. And you want to change this, then let's induce certain Braven, correct. We've learned to correct it and see what happens. That's hypothetical. And I just did a presentation for the neurofeedback conference talking about various types of brain stimulation, and people are trying to achieve that state. But I think, I think we will be closer than anybody else by the Creek. And do you know, and close look processing if your brain showing this EEG, but you want to achieve another one automatically we set the parameters to correct it right away.

Speaker 2: (49:55)
That would be so powerful because then I'll be able to go from a state of high performance, into a state of relaxation within minutes for hips, and then to sleep and lower my stress levels, you know, and someone who has problems with, um, too many too, too much brain. Um, yeah, I need to be able to slow things down. So, so being able to do something like that and change. So which of the, the, the, the gamer, uh, so you got alpha beta, uh, theater gamer, which ones are you wanting to upregulate? If you're wanting to increase cognitive performance, as opposed to reducing stress and slowing down,

Speaker 3: (50:38)
You know, what I'm finding is when your brain is encoding processing information and trying to absorb it's, uh, it's including a very high frequencies. I gamma maybe 80 minutes, you know, and when you are reproducing, it, it could be 40. And then I've seen studies should be 10 because 10 is where you're more relaxed as well. Um, and then there are cognitive performance enhancement where they show you should be coupled with what memory processing data, which is required. It's very slow above four, five, six Hertz and gamma. So I know I've got, uh, and, uh, so you, you, you reproduce it, read the gamma FOS brief is actually a couple with a slow wave. So the slow cycle, you see the fast ones. Wow. And that is, that is all possible just knowing which part of the brain is being produced. So content husband, I'm actually looking at it right now, but, uh, but I say, you know, if you're learning, you're training, you're trying to process you. You want to help your brain. Like, you know, you can induce fast frequencies doing that. And when you go into competition, you want to be collected and you want to be able to reproduce it and not too slow. You want to be, you know, perhaps 10 minutes, which is the alpha to give you a tennis player. You've got someone who is very highly ranked, who's using a device.

Speaker 2: (52:20)
Wow. That's good.

Speaker 3: (52:23)
Because you know, a tennis match goes on little five hours. You gotta be strategizing thinking, not just reacting all the time. Right. So that's a,

Speaker 2: (52:36)
You may be able to in the future, be able to influence the state that we want to be in for that particular time, whether that's distress reduction or whether that's high performance or whether that's, you know, cognitive enhancement. So that's a really exciting area too.

Speaker 3: (52:54)
Yeah.

Speaker 2: (52:55)
And not all of us have got, you know, 10 hours a day to sit around on a mountain and to be, um, learning from the monks. Unfortunately, that would be fantastic. But if we can shortcut that process perhaps to getting into the right room,

Speaker 3: (53:09)
Well, meditation studies dealing with people who are already pretty advanced, but yeah, you do that stage. Like this is a step of a finger, you know? Wow. Very quickly. That sounds excellent. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (53:21)
That sounds like something I need for sure. Okay. Dr. Lew, well, thank you very much for your time today for all this incredible work that you've doing. Um, all the good that you're doing in the world. Thank you very much. Um, on behalf of my mum as well. Thank you very much. Um, and, uh, it's, it's been fascinating to talk to you. Um, so everybody go to Vielight.com. That's V I E L I G H t.com. And if you're wanting to purchase any of the, um, devices that are available to the consumer, use the code T A M A T I at checkout and get a 10% discount. And if you've got any questions for dr. Lew and his team, please reach out to him there on the contact page there. So, dr. Lew, thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for having me. It's been fantastic

Speaker 1: (54:09)
That's it. This week for pushing the limits, be sure to write review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

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