In this interview Lisa interviews top Holistic movement and health coach David Liow of

Lisa and David do a deep dive into why our circadian rhythms are out of whack, what blue light blocking glasses can do for your health and sleep dysfunctions. They also look into health optimisation and foundational health principles.

David Liow completed a post-graduate MPhEd (dist) at Otago University and became a Occupational Therapy lecturer in rehabilitation, anatomy, and kinesiology, then a senior lecturer in Exercise Rehabilitation and Resistance Training.

While teaching in higher education, he kept following his passion in sports training and spent a decade working with High Performance Sport New Zealand as a lead strength and conditioning coach. This gave him the opportunity to work with a wide range of world class athletes.

Some career highlights so far are:

  • Head trainer for the New Zealand Black Sox for two successful World Series campaigns
  • Head trainer and regional trainer for NZ Women's and Men's Hockey for several Commonwealth and Olympic Games.
  • Head trainer for the NZ Titleist Men and Women's Golf Academy for several Espirito Santo and Eisenhower Trophy Championship teams.
  • Trainer for numerous Commonwealth and Olympic athletes in athletics, basketball, through to swimming.
  • Regularly speaking at FitEx NZ, Filex, Asia Fitness Conference, ExPRO, Asia Edufit Summit, and other international health and fitness events.
  • Health coaching pop bands on international concert tours around the globe.
  • Co-directing Kaizen Exercise Physiologists to develop a world-class team of exercise physiologists
  • Co-founder of the Kaizen Institute of Health

David says the Holistic Movement Coach Programme is the perfect vehicle for him  to live his mission and share his life's work.   He is obsessed with finding the best ways to be healthier and move better.  To balance out his obsession(s) he is also a tai chi and chi kung practitioner and teacher, and practices the lifestyle that he teaches

Findo out more about David and his work and courses at

To get a discount on the blue light blocking glasses mentioned in this podcast use the coupon code Lisa at checkout at
Grab your blue blocking glasses here in our shop

We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:

For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit

For Lisa's online run training coaching go to

Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.

Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program

measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home

For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit:

Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds"

Visit: for more Information


When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn.

She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying.

This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy.

Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine.

This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.

Transcript of the Podcast:

Speaker 1: (00:01)

Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by

Speaker 2: (00:14)
Today I have a special treat for you guys. I have David Liow on the podcast from the sunshine coast, originally a Kiwi. Now David is a Legion and the fitness industry in New Zealand and Australia and Australasia. Uh, he has, uh, MPH ed from Otago university and was an occupational therapy lecturer in rehabilitation and anatomy and kinesiology. And then a senior lecturer in exercise rehabilitation and resistance training. He worked for a decade with high performance sport New Zealand and was the head trainer of the New Zealand black socks, was two successful world series campaigns. He's also worked with golfers and a number of Olympic athletes and athletics, basketball right through to swimming and he as a holistic movement coach. And today we're going to be diving into the topic of light and blue light blocking glasses. Um, something that David has developed his own range of blue locket, blue, blue light blocking glasses and why you should be interested in this.

Speaker 2: (01:17)
We get into sleep, uh, dysfunctional sleep. We get into, um, holistic movement and what that's all about. So a really, really interesting interview with David. Uh, before I go over to David, I just want to remind you my book relentless is now available in the bookstores right throughout the New Zealand. If you're listening from New Zealand, you can grab it at any bookstores around the country or of course if you're overseas or you want to grab it off my site, I'd love you to do that. You can go to To do that. Um, just reminder too, we also have a regular epigenetics webinars that we're holding. Our next one is on the swings day night, but if you're listening to this podcast later, go to for the next webinar. Now this is all about our epigenetics health program, which is using the latest in genetic science to understand your genes and how to optimize them and what's, what's the best environment for those genes.

Speaker 2: (02:16)
So information about every area of your life from nutrition of course, and exercise, what to eat, when to eat, how often to eat, what types of exercise will suit your genes right through to your social, your mental, your intellectual talents that you may not be aware of, what the way that your brain works brought through to the neurotransmitters and the hormones that are dominant and how they will affect your personality. So it's a really amazing insight for health program that we're using both with corporates and individual athletes and people interested in optimizing their health. If you want to check that out, go over to the programs tab on our website at right now over to the show with David Liow. Well hi everyone. Lisa Tamati to hear back at pushing the limits and I am with David Liow How are you doing Dave?

Speaker 3: (03:08)
I'm very well this morning. Thanks Lisa. You're over on the sunshine coast. I am, which is looking quite sunny this morning and we had a lot of rain last night, but the sunny coast is a sunny coast today.

Speaker 2: (03:17)
That was perfect. We've already, uh, um, Rick the morning for your whole family, trying to get on the same call and waking your daughter up and getting your laptop and stuff like that. So apologize to you, to your family, but you, we've got you on here, so I'm really, really privileged to have you on. Again, Dave, you're a return offender to my, uh, podcast. Um, you were on a couple of years ago I think goes so well, but so really excited to catch up with you. And today we're going to be talking a couple of different areas and we'll probably wander off path, but today everyone, it's about light and blue light blocking glasses that you may have heard about and why this is important and sleep. Um, Dave's an expert in this area and there's actually gone out and designed his own, uh, glasses for people. Um, so we're going to be getting into all of that good stuff. But Dave, tell us what you've been up to in the last couple of years and what you do over there on the sunshine coast.

Speaker 3: (04:12)
So in the sunshine coast, I have a exercise physiology clinic, which unfortunately isn't shut down at the moment. So we're on a, we're doing a lot of remote work, which is why communicated well, zoom has become a big commodity here at the moment in my household. So I also mentor a group of, uh, some of the best trainers in the world, many of which are based in New Zealand actually. So I worked with that group there and take them right through their education work. I do a lot of presenting to, so I'm often in Asia and New Zealand. I spend a lot of time in New Zealand. In fact, I was in New Zealand pretty much the whole of February. Just got back in time before things went the Casta key way. Of course, I am of course a Kiwi. Absolutely. So, but I've been, I've been over here for about 10 years now. Um, but certainly, um, I still do a lot of work in New Zealand in particular and a fair bit in Australia, funnily enough. Cause that's where I live.

Speaker 2: (05:08)
Yeah. And you have a hell of a reputation, uh, in the, in the personal training and the fitness training space. Um, you talk to anybody who's done anything, you know, above the sort of basic stuff and they know who you are. Um, so you've got a long, long history. You are a holistic movement coach. Can you explain what that is?

Speaker 3: (05:27)
Absolutely. So holistic movement coach, the idea is it's more than movement and that's pretty much what they're, what the logo says. So much more than movement because what I found is, I guess I've been doing this for over 25 years now and what I've, what I've always specialized in is the, the mechanics of the body. Yep. So I look at what's connected to what, look at how the tissues work, look at how joints work, look at how people move. And that was my world. But what I found after a while is that's not enough because we're more than just joints and leavers so much more. So if you don't look after the other part, that's where the holistic part comes in. If you don't look after the whole person after everything from their mindset through to the asleep, through the nutrition, there's just no way you can, you can get your results. So you can have the best training program in the world, the best corrective exercise program in the world. But if, if your minds are, you're stressed out of your brain or sleeping, I don't care what you give someone that's just not going to work.

Speaker 2: (06:23)
That's so funny that you come to the same conclusion and we, I mean a lot of people have late. I think as we do more research and starting to see also when you're training somebody or two people and you're getting completely different results and you're giving them the same program and the same goals and they're the same type of person and same age or whatever and you're like, why is that person getting results? And they're not. So really being that personal spaces in that holistic looking at, cause I truly believe like our mind is so like important for healing. You know, it's not just mechanical isn't, it? Isn't just when you've got a sore back. It isn't just necessarily about the back. Oh no way. Can you explain

Speaker 3: (07:03)
cliques and I know you've had some speakers talk about pain as well. Pain is extremely complex. That said output not an input. So certainly when you're talking about pain and injury, there's so much going on with the brain with there. Surely some mechanical parts that can have a role. But I mean the top two inches are just absolutely vital and you know with your background only. So you know that in terms of a high performance, but you can apply that to any field. You know, I guess one of the big differences there that I've come across is we're so focused on loading people. That's been our thing. How do we train people? How do we add more load onto people that's adding more stress on the people. So, and you know, I'll talk at a conference, there'll be, you know, there might be 50 talks on at the conference, 45 of them will be about loading, how to lot people with heel bells, how to load them with power bands, how to, how to Olympic lifting.

Speaker 3: (07:55)
Those things are great. Don't get me wrong. And I teach those and I do those. But where's the other part about getting people recovering? Well, getting them in the right place. So one of the key fundamentals and holistic movement coach is getting people in the right place so they can accept load. And then that's a really big point of difference. So if you can get people in the right space, then you apply your load, you can apply whatever load you want and they'll be fine. But until you're in that space, you're going to have nothing but breakdown.

Speaker 2: (08:24)
Yeah, and this is like, this is a real mind shift because like I know you've worked with a lot of elite level athletes and you know, in, in, in my stupid career, and I don't count myself as an elite athlete, I count myself as one of those stupid stubborn ones. But that I had that mentality just go hard or go home, you know, go harder, go harder, go harder. It was always the answer. If I wasn't getting results go harder. And it took me a long time to realize, especially as I got older, that approach was no working. And how do you reconcile that for people that are in the elite space set are just used to going full bore and then that suddenly not getting the results they used to get.

Speaker 3: (09:06)
Yeah, it's funny, I had a conversation with a group of athletes the other day and what I normally find is you are the classic woman, high performance athlete. You really are most of the guys, well I always find the individual athletes work harder than team athletes. Um, ones that work in funded sports and you know, great athletes here. And this is a massive generalization, sorry guys out there who are listening to this and going, hang on when work with you, I worked hard. But you find that the individual athletes work harder. Most of the men, you need to kick up the ass. You need to hold them back. So you, you're the classic one, but you live, you got smarter as you train. And I've read your journey and how you, how you run. You're constantly there to listen to, you know, when the, when the, when the student's ready, the teacher appears and, and you know, you certainly, um, you know, you figured out some, some pretty cool stuff and you know, that's the stuff that you apply in your program now. So yeah,

Speaker 2: (10:14)
you know that someone like Neo because I would argue and argue and argue with him, but eventually I came around cause what I was doing was right.

Speaker 3: (10:22)
Hello. He was right to have it

Speaker 2: (10:27)
fancy that I had to, Murray was right all along. But it is, it's a really hard shift and I think, you know, cause you get away with a lot when you're 20, well you knew 40 and you're still trying to be at the top of your game or your mid thirties even. You start to have a different things going on and things aren't recovering as well as they were. And even though you're doing the same thing, it's just not more of the same to every decade. I reckon you need a complete new approach.

Speaker 3: (10:56)
You need to do it smarter. And I've got a guy who, um, is in, he's, he goes to the world championship, um, uh, triathlon every year and he's been doing that for, I've been working with him for the last, since I arrived here, nine years now. And he got a three fastest times last year actually. The last one was blue, which is the last triathlon event before they closed down all the events here. So he's getting faster and faster and faster and know when he sees 50, 53 now. And we had a chat the other day and we were laughing about it and he's saying, you know, my three fastest times I've been in my last, you know, my last year, he said, yeah, we were actually starting to get the hang of it now. So look we can, we can flip the age card. Look there is a part to play I'm getting on as well, but we're looking at that experience you can bring to the table there. And I'm often training with young guys and I'm not going to, you're doing it right for an old guy. And I say, you got really well for young guy. He hasn't got nearly experienced I have,

Speaker 2: (11:55)
but don't ever compliment them so I can find out the hard way. But there is, it just has to be done smarter, so much smarter. And you know, we all look at ourselves as young athletes and go, Oh man, I had so much raw ability there. But then you look at how you're training now and go, boy, I'm so much smarter now. If you can take the, I'd much rather have a smarter than a roar athlete, get combined the two and you've got something really special and give it time. And I think like now we're starting to crack and this is an area of study that really interests me is longevity for obvious reasons. I'm getting older, my parents are getting old and I want to keep everyone alive and healthy. So that's the focus of my study in a lot of ways. Um, and we are working things out now to slow that aging process and reverse a lot of the danger, a lot of the problems that we've caused ourselves.

Speaker 2: (12:47)
So, um, I'm excited for some of the stuff I've been getting, you know, reading all sorts of stuff. I'm on peptides and all this sort of stuff and just wishing I could get access to some of the stuff and try it all out cause I'm a tree blew by a hacker, you know, try everything out on your own body, see how it works. Um, and there's some amazing stuff coming in. The information that's coming, uh, down the pipeline. If we can just stay healthy long enough, we, we've got a good chance at living really long, healthy lives. I think, you know, in the next 10 years there's going to be so much change happen that, you know, good things are gonna happen if we're onto it and we know we're aware of what's coming in the space. So I'm really excited for the, you know, being able to maintain performance for longer and have, you know, health and longevity, you know, beyond the hundred.

Speaker 2: (13:35)
I think that that's, you know, well and truly possible. So exciting. Um, and of course too, because health has that foundation. Yeah. We call it health and fitness. I mean it has to be healthy. Then fitness. You can't have one without the other. I know you had some real challenges in the query there and when that health goes, you can forget about the other part of it cause it's just not going to last year that's still undoing some of the damage I've done to my body. I've managed to save my kidneys and get them back on track, but then, you know, hormones came into the picture and um, you know, uh, troubles in the lady department and all that sort of jazz that's not on a fix and he has a lot to unravel. If I'd done it differently, um, back then. And of course, you know, doing extreme ultramarathons brings with it dangerous. It's not, you know, it's not, um, you know, a couple of hours running around the roads. It's doing really, really at the limit things and what is a coach now, I'm always like concerned. Sometimes I find myself like being that old mother be, it's like, Hey, no, don't push that hard. Go to those lengths because you know, sometimes it's not worth it for a competition. You know, um, one of the things that I often find myself saying to people as they, you know, they, they equate,

Speaker 3: (14:52)
uh, fitness with health. But boy, you know, sports not about health. It's about seeing how hard you can push yourself before you or your opponent breaks. So, you know, and that is the pointy end of performance. So you know, the way you've been pushing yourself, there's, there's, that's where you've, you've got to have everything covered and that's where a lot of that approach you said about your health and getting all those bits and pieces there. Because if you can get all those, those bases covered, you have got potential to push yourself through. Well, but a lot of people don't bring that health to that, that base health to the

Speaker 2: (15:26)
they face table. In other words, yeah. High performance sport or extreme endurance sport in my case is not healthy in of itself. Um, and I like, I truly believe like I was extremely fit in one way. I could run for hundreds of Ks, but I was sick. And if I look at myself in the way I looked and the way my body and my phenotype, my body was presenting, I did not look healthy. I look healthier. I look, funnily enough, more athletic now because I'm not holding all the fluid and my kidneys and working again. And my, you know, I was always four or five. I was quite puffy, you know, I was quite, um, I was always a muscular build, but I was puffy and unhealthy looking. And I always sort of was carrying white, you know, and wondering why when I'm doing millions of kilometers a year. And, um, and now I know why. Cause my body was just complete in hormonal hell and adrenal hell and, and, and so I was fit, but I was not healthy. And now for me, it's all about being healthy and longevity in having foundation or health.

Speaker 3: (16:36)
Yeah. And bringing that to you, you runners that you're working with in your groups. That's, that's, um, you know, that's gonna make, uh, uh, people enjoy what they do, so much more in it, achieve great things. So that's the way it should be done. So good on you for learning the lesson.

Speaker 2: (16:51)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then being able to share the insights. And it's funny that we both come to the same sort of conclusions. Well it's probably logical. I suppose it's also a part of the age that we're at and having that maturity to be able to not just, it's not all just about much Muchow call I go go. It's about being strategic and you know, and I look at you, a lot of young athletes that are, you know, it's all about their abs and it's all about, you know, how sexy they look and that approach has also not healthy. Like it's not going to bring healthy just cause you're like ripped. Um, especially when it comes to woman. I think, you know, like we have this, you know, the ideal that isn't actually necessarily or always a healthy ideal. It's uh, it might look good for five minutes and your beginning ideal, but it's not exactly, we should be health wise and hormonally and all of that sort of stuff. We've gone completely off track cause today was me talking. But I love talking to people like you. So let's get back to blue light blocking glasses. Um, and why, why these are important, what they do and how, how does, um, having the wrong light at the wrong time affect your health?

Speaker 3: (17:59)
I guess we need to kind of talk about light to start with. And you know, if you think about the foundations of health, we think about the foundations of who we are as as humans we've always been exposed to light and dark. Those are two things that have never changed. We've had ever, and the way that we've operated, well, most and most cultures is that you are active in the day. That's the time you hunt together and at night that's the time you sleep. Because as cave men and cave woman, we were the fastest beings or strongest. So if you go hunting at night, unfortunately that say with two tigers got a better night vision than you have. So that's not a logical time for you to go and do your thing. So we've always been exposed to that as a way of regulating where our systems at and where we are.

Speaker 3: (18:46)
Every cell in your body has a circadian rhythm. So it's Acadia means about a day. So every cell in your body knows has a certain function at a certain time. And there's a neat little Wikipedia article on this, which basically says at different times where your reaction times best and you know this yourself, you get up, you have a certain routine that you'll go through. There are times you'll feel hungry, there are times you'll go to the toilet. There are times that your your most awake, most alert times that you want to go to sleep. So we have a whole rhythm built into our behaviors. In every single cell in our body has behaviors and actions that are governed by Diana light. So this is one of the foundation rulers of how our body works.

Speaker 2: (19:29)
Absolutely. So, so, okay, so what we've done in the last couple of hundred years, or I don't know how long we've actually had electric life, but ever since we've had electric glide, we've tipped everything up on its ear and we now have light at night time, whereas in the caveman days, and this is where our DNA hasn't evolved with the way that we've changed our lifestyle so quickly. Um, so we were exposed to, you know, televisions and lights and artificial lights and fluorescent light and horrible, lots of light, uh, at nighttime when our bodies are producing the hormones to go to sleep, your melatonin and things like this. Um, if, if we even go back, like I've just been reading a book by T S Wiley on hormone or health for woman and so on. And she talks about the fact that back in the old days when we were only governed by Moonlight, all woman's cycled at the same time. And I was like, wow. So we used to be all in sync with the moon and, and, and like how much light male camping trips that are out there. Months. We're outta here. But isn't that interesting that we, you said we used to be completely governed and this is, you know, back in the cave man days by those cycles of day and night and now are who is so, um, you know, bombarded with other types of light that are all about cycles, have now become individual.

Speaker 3: (20:51)
They're that light exposure. That's a better message. That's a, that's a great point because we used to have real light and real dark. So if I'm looking outside now, it's a pretty sunny day here. Um, so lights measured and what the units called a lax. And ALEKS is the amount of light put out by a candle when it's one meter away from you. So that's one Luxe. So, um, if you're looking at Moonlight, we'll go with Moonlight. Moonlight is around maybe 0.5 to one Luxe. So it's a very light amount of light. Well, it's a very small amount of night. So if I'm looking at a room, let's say you're, um, soft lighting in a, in a bedroom that's 50 Lux. If you were sitting in your room, you're in your dark room. That's not a dark room. That's 50 lacks. And what's happening now is with all the artificial light.

Speaker 3: (21:38)
And um, for me, I live in the suburbs so my neighbors have their light on it. It puts a, you know, I can, if I walk outside I'll see that. So we're not exposed to real dark. Our darks not dark, right. If we flip it the other way too, our light's not light. So I'm looking outside at the moment. I've probably got 50,000 Lux of natural sunlight out there. If I'm sitting in an office though, I've probably got 300 Lux. So when I'm in day sitting in my light, I'm not sitting in real life. And when I'm at night, I'm not sitting in real dark. So now we have 50 shades of gray thing going on at that movie. We've got that all the time. So we're not seeing real dark and real life. Some of the people that probably, well hopefully watching, listening to our interview today, um, they may get up in the morning, it might be dark where they are too.

Speaker 3: (22:29)
They might flick on a light bulb, they'll hop in their car, they'll go to their office underground, they'll go to their office where they'll sit in their cubicle all day with their first flight. They can't get out for lunch, cause are busy. They'll come home by then it might be getting a bit dark too. They'll go and they'll sit in front of their TV. So I get no exposure to real dark or real life. And boy that is a foundation for how our body operates. You get that wrong, you miss that up. Um, you can get a whole range of interesting symptoms. Every system, every cell in your body is affected by that. So we're at see where it goes. Nobody knows, but it's not going to be good.

Speaker 2: (23:06)
No. And this is, it fixed. So many systems like we have, you know, a hormonal system as a, as I mentioned before, we've got out melatonin production and now our eyes. Um, and, and also the fact that like, that's getting to the, you know, uh, the subject of, of why sunlight's important and we've all been told like, you know, don't put sunscreen on and make sure you're covered up when you go out in the sun and so on. And that is actually, we're not giving enough vitamin D. I mean, everyone knows that we produce vitamin D when we go in to the sunshine, but I don't think people know how important vitamin D and all of the processes is actually a prohormone. They're calling now, not a vitamin because it's so many parts of the body and so many organs. Everything from your, your mood, which we do understand that, you know, that produces it seasonal, um, disorder.

Speaker 2: (23:56)
Um, but it also like is, is a, is the building block one of the building blocks of your hormones, of your, your, uh, your mood in, you know, all of these things are being affected. Even your bone health, you know, like vitamin D is one of those crucial things. Um, and we can supplement with vitamin D. And I think for a lot of people that's a great thing to be doing if you can't get the normal amount of sunlight. Um, and I was reading, but yeah, we need to actually go outside and get sun on our eyes and sun on our skin. What actually happens when we go out and we get that sunlight, cause I used to wear a, I still do most of the time because I've got very sensitive eyes to light. So I've been wearing my sunglasses forever and a day outside. Why is it important that I take my sunglasses?

Speaker 3: (24:44)
So what are doing Mary can mean particularly for people who have sleep problems is they get some real sunlight in your eyes, particularly in that first half of the day. So their morning sun. So that's the most important time. So when that light comes through, so lights made it a whole lot of different colors. So all the colors of the rainbow, the Roy Bev thing, but typically a daylight or or, or a real real life. It's very high in blue light. When that comes through, it goes through your eyes and there's some photo of, there's some fairly sensitive ganglion cells. So there's some specific cells in your eyes which are right in your written to the there which, which sends signals to your master clock in your brain, which then sends signals out to the rest of your body letting you know what time it is.

Speaker 3: (25:31)
So that morning sun. So sunglasses, I've got no problems with sunglasses. If you're out in the sun all day, but getting up, you know, being in sunglasses all day, that's going to do you a disservice. So ideally you want some, some real light in your eyes. Take the 15 minutes is great, you know, thirties fifteens, but even five minutes better than nothing, right? So if you are struggling with sleep, even if you can eat your breakfast outside or get a little bit of a walking from your car to the office or around the block, getting some real sunlight that will help your brain distinguish, okay, this is daytime. Then if you can get some real dark, okay, then your brain can start thinking, okay, now I understand what time of day it is so I can start getting my cycles right.

Speaker 2: (26:14)
Wow, that's, that's powerful stuff. And then, and then so many knock on effects for our health and we'll do that and when we do it wrong. And you know what, um, I'm working with a few different people that are unfortunately in hospital at the moment with, you know, various problems, um, delights in the hospital. Like we were sticking our sickest, most vulnerable people under these horrific lights that are going all night. I mean, of course the nurses need to move around and see. So it's a bit of a, I don't know how to fix the problem. Yeah, jeez. Yeah,

Speaker 3: (26:44)
so there's the fluoro. So flouro and led lights are particularly high in blue light too. So when you're in those hospitals, um, Chang airport says another place if you wish. I'm obviously not at here at the moment, but I go and the amount of light in their places, often they're at 3:00 AM in the morning in between places. Those lights. Singles are incredibly strong and that's effectively that blue light coming from those lights here is telling your brain that it's, it's middle of the day. So I always thinking about the nurses that work in those places too. That's a know that's a real health hazard for them. So unfortunately we've got all these lights in our houses now too. So led lights are very energy efficient but also extremely, extremely powerful. So you've got a whole of intensity but also very, very high in blue light.

Speaker 3: (27:34)
The old school filament, like light bulbs are very low and blue lights. So the old school lights though, they do more energy. We're actually far better for your health, for your health. Wow. That's no good. No, not unfortunately not. And that's where you, you candle lights really great too. And you know, when we were thinking back to our roots, and this is, you know, if we look in the past to find out how we need to kind of operate for our health today, um, you know, fire is also very low and blue light. So sitting around a fire is actually very common. It doesn't wake you up unless you're sitting too close to the fire. That's out candle lights.

Speaker 3: (28:16)
Um, just on that, you know, um, a change of temperature, but before you go to bed is also another good sleep. You know, this is why when you, when you increase the warmth or what, um, or even cold would actually, well, as long as you change the temperature that you've been in, that signals to your body is a change coming at something you go to sleep. So that's another little trick and you know why? Probably sitting around the fire that doesn't have blue light and that will help you go, go and not off afterwards. That idea of sleep routines is just fantastic and yeah, you know, and you know, having a good receipt routines, fantastic. And we do this with our kids where we're grading it, you know? Yeah. Okay, we're going to get ready to go to bed now. Okay, we'll brush your teeth.

Speaker 3: (28:55)
Now we're going to do a story here. Okay. We're going to put on your bedside lamp. We'll turn the light down and we'll go to sleep. But when we're adults, we kind of forget about that. And you go, Oh, okay, I'll watch till the end of this program here. And it might be one big, one time you'll go to bed, might be 9:00 PM. Next one, it's 1130. It's all over the show. We don't do that with our kids. And we forget about those routines. And part of that is, is light light's a big part of that. That's the most important part of your sleep routine is getting your light source right. That's exactly right. And this is why. So you learned this and then you said, right, I'm going to go and buy some blue light blocking glasses. Yeah, I did that too. And um, you know, you go on the internet, you Google up somewhere on Etsy or eBay or somewhere and you buy something.

Speaker 2: (29:41)
And what did you find with those glasses?

Speaker 3: (29:44)
Yeah. Um, so achieve one of your, I know we um, a previous speaker you head on was talking about sleep apnea and positional sleep apnea. So look, I've always thought I slept pretty well, but when I started working on my sleep apnea and my breathing boy, I went to another level and I got quite excited about it and once I fell out of a blue light and the effects that have, I thought, man, I've got to get that right. So exotic executive, same as you. I went out and I bought about 20 pairs of glasses from, from all sorts of people. And when I did my research there, I found out, okay, I need to find out about transmission spectrum or in other words, what colors or what, what frequencies of light were blocking, uh, with those glasses. So every pair of glasses that I bought, I emailed the manufacturer and said, tell me about your glasses.

Speaker 3: (30:36)
What transmission spectrum are they are and what have they been tested? Most of them never even got back to me. And the ones that did had no idea what you're doing. I started thinking, well come on, this can't be right. And it didn't seem to matter what price I paid for those glasses either. Even some of the so called blue light glasses websites. They had no idea or no data supporting what they're actually doing. So what you were getting was all over the show. Sometimes I'd actually find, I'd get the same pair of glasses from, from two different manufacturers and they were the same pair of glasses, but they were totally different. I had totally different stats on them. All the lenses were different colors and they said they were the same.

Speaker 3: (31:17)
Absolutely. Here's an example of when I got here and I'll just put that this is what a typical, yeah, blue light glass looks like. It's got a slight orange tinge to it and that blocks certain colors. So particularly the blue is the color we want to block. And what that does is that takes away the signal to our brain that it's, it's, it's daylight. So the idea with blue light blocking glasses is to tell your brain you with them at night to tell your brain that it's not daytime. So that was a so called blue light blocking. These are cheap here. I think that was maybe, maybe 40 bucks or something off some internet site and that's mine. And if we have difference in color block the same amount of light. Wow. I completely different. No they don't because I actually ended up getting an optometry lab, um, to produce mine cause I got so disappointed with the quality of, of glasses and I said there's no way I'm going to wear these myself and if I shouldn't wear them, why the hell would I ask other people to wear them? We

Speaker 2: (32:18)
had as a lay person, you read the advertising material and you, you know that the science is correct. Like the, the, you know what we've been saying about and it makes sense to you and then you go and buy some and then you're disappointed because it's not doing well. You don't notice. You just think I'm doing it right. And I, and I've got it right and I haven't. So now you've got these available. So, um, I will be putting, uh, the links of course to, to your glasses and uh, in the show notes. Um, but just let us know where we came. Can we grab your glasses from?

Speaker 3: (32:49)
Yep. So holistic movement coaches though my company, so it's H M with and they are available in the store there and I'm sure if we ask Lisa nicely, she might put a coupon code in for you.

Speaker 2: (33:04)
We're going to do that and I'll put that in the show notes or I'd actually like to list them up on our site and drop, you know like yeah. So that people have them available. So yeah, either go to Dave's website or my website and you'll be able to grab those ones. We'll, we'll sort that out afterwards. Um, so

Speaker 3: (33:21)
Lisa, you were talking about melatonin before then. That's one of the things that got me really excited when I started looking at the glasses and there was one study there that kind of, I looked at it and went, wow, that's amazing. And they had two groups of people. One had a clear lens and the other one had a blue light blocking glasses lens and that it was good quality lens. It was pretty much the same as mine. Yup. And they showed the melatonin levels creeping up during the night and that's what should happen. So melatonin is, is it's basically a hormonal signal for dark. It's your body's way of saying it's dark and those levels creep up as soon as it starts getting dark and they were going the same, um, until what happened is the blue light blocking glasses guys had a much higher level of melatonin than the ones that were wearing the clear lenses.

Speaker 3: (34:10)
So since I were in a, they were in a, a room, which was about 150, lax, which is a, uh, and average lounge. Yep. Um, the blue light blocking glass folks had a much higher melatonin level so that we're getting the appropriate signal. But what was interesting though was after they went to sleep in the morning, the folks at block blue light had less melatonin first thing in the morning. Absolutely. Because the last thing, when you're awake, you don't want melatonin running around your body. So they wake up drowsy. So typically people who don't block blue light will struggle to get to sleep because they're not getting their chemical message from melatonin that it's dark. But then in the morning they get stuck with that excess melatonin and find it hard to get going. There are a few, one of those folks that struggle to get to sleep and also struggle to get going in the morning. That exposure to light could be a really big factor

Speaker 2: (35:03)
and this and the melatonin and the cortisol are related and I'm not an expert on this, but I, I started taking, cause I was having trouble sleeping melatonin tablets, you know, um, supplements and I was, you know, it was good. I was sleeping much better. Um, then I did a blood test and I'm not quite sure, you know, but my, my doctor rang me up in a bit of a panic going, you know, your melatonin levels are 10,000 times too high. Um, uh, and um, your, your blood, I think you've serum levels or whatever. It's not, you know, actually 10,000, but it was, it was a lot higher and I had no cortisol like when they, cause they did the cortisol tests and I don't know whether it was related to the melatonin or not, but since stopping the melatonin and implementing some other things to be fair, um, my cortisol levels are now back at the top end of normal range. So they're toppings. But um, so it's a bit of a uh, uh, so you're just taking a supplement of melatonin, um, can be a good thing, but you have to be a little bit careful with that as well.

Speaker 3: (36:09)
Melatonin's is a strange one and I used to recommend people to take melatonin once upon a time, but you know, melatonin is the only hormone that you can buy across the counter or even online and get it shipped to you. I mean, imagine doing that with testosterone or, or any other hormones you've got in your body. It's, it's, it's a strange one and it's very unregulated. So when you get a melatonin, if you're taking a pill or a capsule or drop, the dose you get is often very different from the dose that you experienced in your body too. So it's very unregulated. So you pay a little bit tricky with the brains you're using. Now what you found nearly so in your perfect example of that is your levels went sky high because often what happens is melatonin builds up and production peaks around the middle of your sleep cycle. If you were went to bed at 10 and woke up at six, halfway through that would be about 2:00 AM. So that's when your melatonin levels are really cranking. But when you take a melatonin before you go to sleep, you're going to get that peak very, very early as well. So now you're going to get a hormonal message, which is in the wrong time of that cycle too. So they can still sit up some, some little issues there. And if you're getting crazy high levels of that, that can cause you some issues.

Speaker 2: (37:22)
And this was only one tablet, a little wee tiny tablet. So it wasn't, you know, like overdosing or anything. And then the cortisol, which is your stress hormone, but it's one we want in the morning, absolutely was in that gutter. So I was like waking up like, Oh my God, do I have to get out of bed because I don't want, you know, there's just no get up and go. And it was just sheer grit to get up

Speaker 3: (37:41)
flooded with melatonin. That time there and you know, you did right cortisol as you'd get up and go in the morning. So melatonin should plumb it in the morning because it's no longer dark. It's time to get up cortisol levels. It should be the highest there to get you out of bed. So you start playing around with that system. Um, bye. Introducing foreign substances in. Yeah. You

Speaker 2: (38:02)
know, you can get some varied results, which you may not be wanting to do it under controlled if you're going to do it, you know, Drake that you're measuring it too though, you know, at least you know what's working for you and what's not working for you. Yeah. And, I mean, unfortunately we can't go and get a cortisol test every week or a blood test every week. So it's always a time and point. Um, but you know, and when you, because I've, you know, struggled for a long time with adrenal insufficiency, surprise, surprise, and, you know, a lot of people have high cortisol, whereas I was like, no cortisol, like not producing any hormones of any sort for everything in the gathering, wondering why, why, when I'm training my ass off, things aren't working, you know. Um, and, and starting to, you know, over the last couple of years, starting to unravel that mess and get it back.

Speaker 2: (38:54)
And it's not a, it's not easy and it's, it's, it's hard in course when you're going through the change changes in life anyway, and you've got all that going on. But we, um, you know, we can optimize this if we, if we, if we learn enough, if we get the right doctors, if we get the right support and this and getting our hormones right so that we stay in the best optimal ranges I think is, um, but you do need to do that under the auspices of a good, hopefully a functional doctor if you don't want to be playing around with these things Willy nilly, you know, even melatonin, even though you can buy it over the counter, can have adverse effects. Um, as a culture we're always looking for that quick fix or that pill always. I think melatonin is like step 42 and ways of getting better sleep.

Speaker 2: (39:44)
A good way of putting it is it is one of the tools and the cats, it needs to be done in a regulated fashion and it needs to be done a little bit carefully. And the other things are lower hanging fruit. The natural way is a better way. If we can go what it looks like looking glasses and angel. Certainly, you know, if you can sleep in a dark room, I love that temperature. The idea of temperature you had before. Get the temperature right in your room. If you can dim your lights as well and try and keep away from bright lights at night, that's got to help. And look, something's better than nothing. But you know, certainly if you are really struggling with your sleep and you want to get that back on track, working with light and dark is number the number one thing I work with with sleep disturbances.

Speaker 2: (40:25)
That's the first thing I'll look at. Yeah, absolutely. And then, I mean we had that lovely interview last week with James Morris on the show. Um, it might be a couple of weeks back by the time people hear this. And that's a really important one to to go and, and understand. Cause you know, like someone like you, you said you have positional sleep apnea. Um, you know, you are extremely fit and extremely, you know, uh, into health. And most people are quite amnio with people who are overweight. To people who drink too much, people who you know have diabetes perhaps or, or those sorts of co-morbidities. Um, how did you discover it? If you don't mind sharing and what, do you have to be on a C pap machine? Or are you just doing the mild sleep apnea, which a lot of us will have by the way? Absolutely. So I've always been a snorer. My father's a snore and my brother's a snorer. Yeah. So, and it comes down to airway. So when you sleep, part of sleeping is, is relaxation. And that's where the repair happens. That's why we spend a third of a bedroom, a third of our life there. But, um, when you're, when you're relaxing, part of the issue too is that your, the muscles around

Speaker 3: (41:34)
your, um, your jaw relax as well. So if you're lying on your back, and particularly what that means is the tongue can come back and it can block the airway. The railway is only about as thick as a straw. It's a, it's a very small thing. So, particularly if you have a jaw that doesn't sit very far, if you don't have a big, unfortunately like my jaw comes back and shuts off my airway and I'm the victim. It's like someone's smothering me in the night so that that causes snoring, but also, um, it can totally block my away and wake me up. So, um, yeah. So I ended up measuring a lot of sleep and I looked into measuring sleep. I did that for looking at every device under the sun. And um, I tend to use this one here called a night shift. Okay.

Speaker 3: (42:19)
See on the picture there, you can actually put it around your neck. That's the idea. And that's a medical grade. Um, sleep, sleep measuring device without people going into a sleep lab, it's the best, um, the best device you use. And so here we go. You just pop it off you go. And basically what I ended up doing is measuring my own sleep, then hundreds of people after that. Then teaching lots of people how to do that and how to analyze that and figure out what's going on with people's sleep. We can we get those, you know, it's a medical one, so not easy to get by because not everybody wants a full blown stuff.

Speaker 3: (43:01)
So what we actually do with my guys and holistic movement coaches that I train, they're actually trained to actually, we actually hire them out. We get people to actually click the data, they send them back to us, and then we actually take them through what the data means. So, wow. Yeah. You've got your watches that you can wear, which you know, which can give you some sleep sleep. That's called actigraphy. And the idea is you put your watch on your wrist. When you move your wrist, it means you're awake. When you're, you're not moving, you're asleep. That's probably a little bit too simplistic. That's kind of looking at, you know, looking at the Speedo and your car saying, okay, that's how my car is running. There's a lot more going on on the surface. Just that one reading. So, yeah. What a, what a, what a sleep study does.

Speaker 3: (43:45)
And what they do in a sleep lab is I'll put, um, that leads onto your head looking at your brain activity. They'll look at your breathing, they'll look at your heart rate, they'll look at movement. So the movement, the actigraphy, Pat's only one small part of it. So what a, what a night shift does is it actually attaches around your neck because if you're moving your, your neck device on the back of your neck, you're awake. So it's much more accurate for a staff, but it also measures snoring as well. So snoring, volume and also any position you're in. So what I found is when I'm lying on my back, well that's the time we, my ai

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